Open Panzer
Developer's Forum => Open Source Sound Dev => Topic started by: Rad_Schuhart on September 17, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
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EDIT: I ended destroying my soundcard. I don't recommend to try it to anybody, not with the Open Panzer soundcard, and not with the Benedini Mini. If you, unlike me, know what you are doing and decide to try it, do it on your own risk. If it works, please post it so we can follow your steps. If it does not, please post it too for knowing what to not to do. Time to cry for me :'(
Hi Luke, as I mentioned somewhere, when driving at the backyard and rising the volume, the speaker cracks quite a lot. I guess this is due to the lack of power, so I am planning to wire an amp to the soundcard.
I dont know how many W is your card able to pull, but do you think I can wire one of this to the board? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850211478.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6a3ca40dTGQrVk&algo_pvid=b1b999d1-3ff8-4b51-9e7a-6b711e1d2a6b&algo_expid=b1b999d1-3ff8-4b51-9e7a-6b711e1d2a6b-36&btsid=41910177-2c7a-4026-a6b0-098478ef8206&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52
I am using them in benedini micros and they work like a charm.
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I have a hard time remembering but I think you have a Version 1 board with the 2.6 watt amplifier. That one does have a pre-amp output and yes you can try to connect it to an external amp such as the one you linked. I have tried those cheap Chinese ones including a variant of the one you linked to and found them to have a lot of distortion. It is also only 3 watts so not much different than 2.6 watts. But it is cheap enough that it doesn't hurt to try it.
The version 2 hardware which I think you don't have uses a 10 watt amplifier so volume is much higher. However it does not have a pre-amp output.
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Yep, I have the 1.0 version. I'll try to find another amp at aliexpress tomorrow with a bigger output. A 5w one will be probably enough, but a 10w won't hurt neither.
Anyway It will be good for the science and also for editing my blog's entry!
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Ok, I could not wait until tomorrow for taking a look.
If I remember well, the tamiya speakers were about 5W, so I think this amp looks good enough: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008463293.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.110d3736EaXwQ3&algo_pvid=a374daa5-54db-4a7c-a97e-7f464ac1029e&algo_expid=a374daa5-54db-4a7c-a97e-7f464ac1029e-17&btsid=a5f87d0a-41ff-4351-9ec9-adec254a1b2b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52
A cheaper alternative, but with no pins: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861768239.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1ff33c00WlOZhg&mp=1
But looks like I will need some step down voltage regulator.
EDIT: Lol, this one looks like part of the TCB project:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32648110936.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.33.729bbf86VOsPNq&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.136569.000000000000000&scm_id=1007.13338.136569.000000000000000&scm-url=1007.13338.136569.000000000000000&pvid=1c28357f-1f8f-4730-ad72-f0a4091d2c37
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Hi Luke,
I have received this today.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861768239.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dTutOAh
I am specialist in making smoke with the electronics, and I want to prevent that. I think I know what to do, but can you offer me some guidance?
Thanks!
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Rad I'm assuming you're using the hardware version 1 of the OP Sound card, which has amplifier outputs.
Just connect the +/- from the Line Out on the OP Sound card to the input on the amplifier you bought. Output on the amplifier is obviously to your speaker. The amp also appears to need a 5 volt power source, which the sound card doesn't really have a convenient way of providing. You can use an external BEC or if you are using the TCB you can pull 5 volts from any number of places off of it, the I2C connector on the TCB is unused and it has 5 volt and ground connections.
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Yep, I have the version 1.0
Cool, thanks! That is what I thought, except the 5v source. I was planning to use some sort of step down from the battery voltage, but now it has no sense if I can connect it to the I2c port.
I will try to do it this weekend, and if it works and I will update when it works.
I am sure this will make the speaker work much better.
Cant wait!
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Yes let us know, I will be interested to hear how/if it works.
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Ok, I could not wait until the weekend, so I tried it and I have some horrible news here.
I wired the AMP following your instructions. My soundcard was indeed the Version 1.0 with the line out outputs. I soldered two pins there.
Then I checked the conection one zillion times:
+5, connected it to +5 in the IC2
gnd to gnd
IN+ and IN- to the OP soundcard.
And then OUT+ and OUT- to the speaker.
Before switching it on, I zillion checked it several times.
Then I switched it on, and I had a horrible noise comming from the speaker. Like a fast and loud pulse, but nothing else.
I switched it off and I checked several times I connected everything well. Switched it on again, and same problem.
I tried with a fresh battery, same problem.
Then I decided to, instead of using the +5v and -5v from the I2c, to try an external source of power. I used my voltage regulator, adjusted to 4.8v and then connected it in the +5 and gnd.
I switched the tank on, and hell, it worked. Volume was horrible loud and I could not adjust it. I switched it off and on again, and same problem with the volume. I switched it a third time, and suddenly silence...
I thought I blew the tamiya speaker, so I tried with several speakers I had at home, and no one of them worked. I also tried the King Tiger speaker with other electronics and still worked...
I took the amp away, and connected the speaker to the soundcard, and if I literally put my ear over the speaker I can hear small whispers when triggering the functions... So I guess I blew somehow the soundcard to my horror and despair.
Is there any way I can repair it?
Or even better, is any manufacturer going to produce it in the near future? :'(
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Hi Rad, although I haven't fried anything your experience with the 22 cent Chinese amp is similar to mine - horrible sound quality. Electrical interference is always a problem, even on a properly-designed board with very careful trace layout the challenge remains, once you start adding external wires and such the problems only compound.
I'm sure you had the wiring correct but it would appear that the input impedance (or some other fancy-sounding word) of the Chinese amp was not compatible with the output of the OP Sound Card. This is probably why Benedini posts all kinds of cautions and warnings when using external amplifiers with his device. As mentioned in a different thread I have tried a few different cheap Chinese amps and haven't fried anything, but neither has the sound been any better. I have not done extensive testing of the line-out capability and you'll notice I removed it on subsequent revisions of the sound card.
The question here is whether you actually fried the Teensy, since the onboard amplifier chip is bypassed when using the line out. If so, you could buy a new Teensy 3.2 and just swap it out since it's on a socket, and most likely that will restore the functionality. You can buy one directly from PJRC (https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy32_pins.html) in the States but I'm sure there are some EU sellers that have them too, for example it appears the Mouser EU has them (https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/SparkFun/DEV-13736?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuWWq7rhECaKVjnUlbUDjFgBj37EAXueZA%3D). I would try that first and see if it fixes it.
As for the sound card entering production there is nothing in the works at the moment. If there ever is to be any future Open Panzer production I don't expect it to happen until late 2020 at the earliest. Even then that is a long way off and I can't predict if it will come to fruition or not. .
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This is probably why Benedini posts all kinds of cautions and warnings when using external amplifiers with his device.
True. I always wondered why all the warnings... Now we know. Live an learn...
Do you know if there is a part of the teensy board that can be replaced? Maybe the teensy amp (if it exist) or something?
I am not the most skilled soldering guy, but I can try replacing some SMD components. Not a lot to lose because the board is already dead... After a visual inspection nothing seemed to be dead, but hey...
Anyway I will test the board again today. Maybe it was overheated or something, and it might work later on.
Yep, I know I am a dreamer.
EDIT: Quick question, a Teensy 3.1 will work, or the 3.2 is a must?
EDIT 2.0: The board is dead. I tried to connect it to the computer and not even that works. Sigh...
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There are really no user-replaceable components on the Teensy board. It doesn't have an amplifier on it, most likely what was fried was the DAC output on the processor ("digital-to-analog converter," which it uses to create sound waveforms).
Possibly that is the only portion of the processor that was damaged, but even if so it would render the sound card fairly useless. Your further test where it fails to connect to the computer would seem to indicate that the processor is basically dead.
For this application the Teensy 3.2 is required, a 3.1 will not work.
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Ok, lets start the search of a new teensy 3.2
The chinese seem to have everything, and free shipping!:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053619319.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2f223c00REH7tx&mp=1
What do you think? Yes, I will miss the purple color, but if it works...
Also, once I buy it, and once I put the pins on it, what do I do? Do I just connect it to the computer and with the open panzer software do I flash the latest soundcard software?
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I would not suggest buying a counterfeit Teensy from China, there are many reports that they do not work (https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/counterfeit.html). It also doesn't seem like they cost much less, and there is a good possibility you will just be throwing money away.
For the second part you are correct - just plug it into your computer and flash the Open Panzer Sound Card firmware using OP Config, that's all you need to do.
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I would not suggest buying a counterfeit Teensy from China, there are many reports that they do not work (https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/counterfeit.html). It also doesn't seem like they cost much less, and there is a good possibility you will just be throwing money away.
For the second part you are correct - just plug it into your computer and flash the Open Panzer Sound Card firmware using OP Config, that's all you need to do.
My godness, that's why is always better to ask. Thanks for the tip.
I sourced a german ebay seller, with affordable price and cheap shipping (3 euros)
https://www.ebay.at/itm/PJRC-Teensy-3-2-USB-Development-Board-32-Bit-ARM-72-MHz-Cortex-M4-IOT-TS01001/273030654757?hash=item3f91e52b25:g:Bi0AAOSw0gVdlyYA#shpCntId
Please take a look and tell me what you think. Anyway I am covered with paypal, so in case this is a fake version I can always claim or return it.
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Obviously I've never bought from them so I have no idea, but you can try and find out.
I mentioned to you earlier the PJRC Official Distributor List (https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors), there are multiple sellers in Germany on that list as well as others elsewhere in the EU. I don't know why you wouldn't just use one of those but as we say in America, it's a free country and you can do what you want.
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Obviously I've never bought from them so I have no idea, but you can try and find out.
I mentioned to you earlier the PJRC Official Distributor List (https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors), there are multiple sellers in Germany on that list as well as others elsewhere in the EU. I don't know why you wouldn't just use one of those but as we say in America, it's a free country and you can do what you want.
Well, I did check that link. The two austrian links were not working, so I entered in their homepage, and the fist shop has them out of stock, and in the second are not found.
Then I checked some of the links in germany and it seems they have it, so I will order it from there. Thanks for your assistance!
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Well, time to update. I ordered the Teensy in a strange website which did not inspire me a lot of confidence, but it was in Germany, cheap and with free shipping, so I played the cheapman role again and I ordered it.
It took two days to arrive. I came with no box. Just a plastic envelope and a Teensy paper that explains the pins... I did not know if I got a counterfeit board or a counterfeit of a counterfeit. What I knew is the pirate version came with a nice box and this came with nothing.
I inspected it, connected it to the open panzer software and flashed the newest firmware with no problems at all. But I can do that in my damaged board too, so it did not say a lot.
Then I grabbed some pins and I did a dry fit... It did not work and I started sweating... If I solder the pins, I lose the guarantee and I cannot return it in case of a counterfeit... I tried several things more and well, I had to pull the plunge and to solder the pins on it.
Fairly easy job that I did with very afraid of messing it, droping a solder iron blob over the microprocessor or things like that... Surprisingly it went smooth and nice.
I started the tank, and no sound. I flashed the soundcard firmware again, and no dice. I connected the TCB and I got a promp saying I had to update it. I did it, and after that nothing worked. I paniked and I thought I damaged something, so I tried installing and uninstalling things until I realized all I had to do is to flash my own config in the board again, lol.
Ok, the tank was working again, but still no sound. I tried everything and I cursed myself for not ordering the teensy board with the pins already soldered for 2 extra euros. The cheapman's curse, for ordering in strange sites and saving pennies ordering with no pins, lol. I also thought the other part of the OP soundcard was damaged.
I read the wiki, I flashed and unflashed everything again, and then... Well, it embarrases me, but it might make you laugh. Then I saw it. The speaker. It was just not plugged in.
For God's sake, how could I have missed that? It brought me to desperation, pretty much like when I could not shoot the cannon because of the repair switch, lol.
But yeah, the thing is the board works, I have sound and everything is as expected. I liked more the purple color in the soundcard, but now I have a story to tell. :)
Pfew!
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I'm glad you got it working again! It's always the simple things which trip us up.