Open Panzer
Open Panzer Help & Info => Open Panzer Help => Topic started by: Outofmydepth on May 11, 2018, 03:51:28 AM
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I ordered a Benedini Sound card and I could not get it to work with the OP Board. On mentioning this to Thomas Benedini he said that it was not configured to work with the board as supplied, and it would need returning for him in order to do this or I would need to buy a part to programme it myself.
I thought I would mention this as someone who is just learning the ropes (as I am) may not appreciate this and just order one believing it will be compatible from the go!
Whilst writing I have to add that my experience with Benedini has been far from an enjoyable one. I did have the foresight to mention that I was using an OP board but he forgot to programme it accordingly (hence my warning above!). On my mentioning this (and highlighting my email which he acknowledged), he initially wanted another €28 euros to correct his mistake!
In the event I am now having to try and get a refund through PayPal.
I have read that Mr Benedini has been helpful in other people’s experience (and I believe he has helped making his sound card compatible with the OP board), but I think this may only apply once he has been paid and there are no issues thereafter (or none which incur a cost).
Personally, I would not buy one of these cards, I would consider it too much of a risk, more so as you have little recourse in Germany, (on top of the fact a lot of people think they are expensive for what they are), especially if you have an issue. Not only that but he was not quick to respond or to rectify the issue either, there was just a general reluctance and indifference all round.
In view of the above I think I may try the Das Mikro card and settle for engine sounds alone (if it is not too complicated to adapt!).
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Hi,
your experience with Thomas Benedini is uniqe...
Thomas is a helpful and nice person.
I use five TBS Mini and did not even have problems.
Did you order the TBS Mini by mail,
and order the TBS Mini in the configuration for the TCB?
If not, you get a TBS Mini with Standard Configuration "Auto Start"....
No, the TBS Mini are not too expensive!
These are the best sounding modules you can get.
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Hi Jhamm,
I appreciate your point, I don't mind admitting I have seen other people say that he has been helpful.
Well to be fair he was helpful to me, but I clearly stated that I needed a Mini for the Open Panzer Board and in error he sent me a different configuration. He said this was because I asked too many questions but I am new to the scene and wanted to make sure I had what I needed (and I had ordered and paid for the mini 4 days after making initial contact, not weeks or months later).
So far no problem, because everyone makes mistakes but then he wanted 28 euros to correct the error. When I questioned this it was reduced, but I still had to pay some postage costs, after that any response was slow coming and I was left not knowing what to do.
Perhaps caught him on a bad day, we all have them, but it has been in all honesty a bad experience.
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Did you order the programming cable for the Mini at the same time? If you have the programming cable then it doesn't matter how the Mini is originally configured, you can change the configuration to anything you like including to work with the Open Panzer TCB. The programming cable is also necessary if you ever plan to change the sounds.
If you are having Thomas do all the configuration for you then it will be more expensive and there will be room for miscommunication, etc... I do not recommend anyone take this approach. When you buy the Mini, buy the cable too then set it up as shown in the Wiki and you will be fine.
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In retrospect - good advice! I wish I had done that, I did ask about the difficulties in programming the card etc. and all things considered it was agreed it would be best if TB configured it in advance for the OP Card. I was happy at the time with this approach as I had so many other aspects to consider that it was an attractive option to plug and play the sound element (and ultimately I am mostly interested in the engine sounds/guns). I did suggest he supply the cable to resolve the issue (or ask if that maybe a solution), but this was never taken up and meanwhile matters just deteriorated. However, for anyone else, your right, buy the card and the Programming cable and then any problems can be sorted without recourse to Germany.
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You can do your own programing cable for less than 3 euros with no soldering at and no previous electronic knowledge at all in seconds. I will try to post what you need here as soon as possible.
EDIT: Ok, this is the diagram I followed for the benedini mikro, I cant find the diagram for the mini. The VCC wire for the mikro is not needed. I believe for the mini should be the same. And this is the board that you can use https://www.ebay.com/itm/Basic-Breakout-Board-For-FTDI-FT232RL-USB-to-Serial-IC-For-Arduino-New-3-3V-5-5V/222345924768?hash=item33c4d990a0:g:MogAAOSwImRYUYAV So for about 2 euros you have a programmer :)
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In retrospect - good advice! I wish I had done that, I did ask about the difficulties in programming the card etc. and all things considered it was agreed it would be best if TB configured it in advance for the OP Card. I was happy at the time with this approach as I had so many other aspects to consider that it was an attractive option to plug and play the sound element (and ultimately I am mostly interested in the engine sounds/guns). I did suggest he supply the cable to resolve the issue (or ask if that maybe a solution), but this was never taken up and meanwhile matters just deteriorated. However, for anyone else, your right, buy the card and the Programming cable and then any problems can be sorted without recourse to Germany.
Sorry to hear the bad experience you have with Benedini..
I think ordering the USB Programming cable for TBS Mini + TBS Micro is your best solution. Especially if you plan on starting more projects! You can also use it to program The TBS mini, micro AND Das Mikro.. the cable is expensive, but also the only option to program the TBS mini..
Sorry to say, but the Benedini soundcard will never really be a plug-and-play solution and the possibility to connect it to the openpanzer TCB is a service from Thomas Benedini and i guess we cannot expect him to give full support on that matter..
Best option would be that the Open soundcard would be more easy to Acquire.. i had some plans for this, but i have so many project on my hands right now that i really did not find the time..
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Hi Rad, thank you very much for this input, this is very useful and even I can follow it! So do this and I can programme a Mikro on a PC? I do wish that TB could have just suggested something similar (for the sake of a few euros) and it would have stopped what has become a difficult disagreement. I know he would rather I buy (and pay postage) for his own but in the circumstances on this occasion it would have resolved the matter amicably and quickly and for little cost.
Johnnyyvd, I do appreciate the rather unusual circumstances (of the Benedini card and OP board), but I do think he needs to be clear about this when enquiries are made. It is not a cheap choice and on my initial enquiry stating that I wanted to use his card with an OP Board no such caveats were given, just that this was not a problem, that he could provide it pre-programmed for this purpose. However I know my naivety and lack of experience is not helping and had this thread existed at the time I was making the choice it would have been a god send (not as a warning but because clearly the sound element requires a little more thought and understanding).
Anyway, much as I wanted to concentrate on other aspects of R/C tanks and just plug and play the sound element, I can see I need to delve deeper into this aspect also! I will grab one of these cards that Rad has suggested (I would never have known to look for this or that this is what was required) and try and get a Mikro and hopefully get some engine noise at least!
Thank you both again for your help and suggestions.
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Sorry I meant to ask Johnnyvd a bit more about the Open Sound Card. I have seen that some work has been done on one and I have heard it on You Tube (is that right?) but I think I am right in saying it is not openly available or is just at a development stage. When you say that you had plans to make it easier to acquire, do you mean build that which is already in existence? I also note that you have been too busy to do this but just how difficult would it be to have some made (if you know how to do this you must be another electronics wizard!)? In my (incredibly humble) view this is the one aspect that would put the OP board on the map once and for all. Luke (who must be another genius in this field) has done so much towards this project (and keeps answering questions day in and day out), I really want it to succeed. Its so rare these days people do so much for so little so that everyone can benefit. What about crowd funding or something if it is an issue of finding some money for production?
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Johnny most likely refers to building some prototype versions of the OP Sound Card himself. All the schematics and specifications are posted so anyone with the know-how can do this, though I do not recommend it unless you are experienced with assembling PCBs.
I also do not recommend it presently because the sound card hardware is still undergoing changes and the version posted now is not going to be the final version.
Money for production is definitely an issue but only when we get to the production stage. Right now the issue is my time to work on development. Many additional features have been requested and it needs a lot of work but my free time is limited, often what free time I do have is spent maintaining the TCB firmware. So I really can't predict when or if the OP sound card is going to become a viable option for the masses.
Although we've made a lot of progress, the OP project is still in its early stages. People who aren't very experienced with tanks and model electronics, and those looking for plug-and-play solutions, really will do best to look to other products. Also not every model needs the capabilities of the TCB, in which case the complexity just becomes a drawback. I have seen a few cases where someone bought the TCB and became frustrated, and I think they would have been better off installing something like Taigen's new electronics which if you don't need IR battle are nearly just as good with a lot less hassle.
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Hi Rad, thank you very much for this input, this is very useful and even I can follow it! So do this and I can programme a Mikro on a PC? I do wish that TB could have just suggested something similar (for the sake of a few euros) and it would have stopped what has become a difficult disagreement. I know he would rather I buy (and pay postage) for his own but in the circumstances on this occasion it would have resolved the matter amicably and quickly and for little cost.
Thank you both again for your help and suggestions.
Hi mate, as I always say, If you have the money, you (well, not you, I mean everybody) should buy all the stuff directly to Benedini, his job must be apreciated and recognized...
Said that, I cannot justify the price of his stuff. The benedini micros have a price of about 100 euros plus the programming cable, plus shipping... The chinesse knockout can be found for 15 bucks free shipping! IMHO due to Mr Benedini charges so much for his boards, I think he should at least, give the programmer for free, or indicate to users how to do our own. So even when I defend to buy the stuff directly from him, I cannot encourage to buy the programming cable.
Said that, I bought the benedini mikro clone, and it came with a programmer. (everything was about 20 bucks shipping included) but the programmer came bad wired, so I had to investigate what was going wrong. Then is when I found the photo I posted, I just had to swap some wires. Some time later one of my sons broke the chinesse programmer and I did my own with the item that I linked you from ebay. Works flawlessly and I have been able to program everything and to flash my own sounds. When having benedini stuff, having a programmer is a must. I wish I could help you more, but I have no benedini mini to tell you exactly what to do, but it wont be very different. If Mr Benedini lowers the price (lol) or the chinesse guys copies it, I will get one.
But I must confess all my hopes are in the Open Panzer sound board. The posibility of using it as a stand alone (without the TCB) opens a world of marvels. If the sound quality and capability is like the prototype, and if Luke adds a decent bunch of light outputs, I see this little board selling like hot bread...
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Johnny most likely refers to building some prototype versions of the OP Sound Card himself.
This is correct. I'm not even near an electronics genius.. The real genius is Luke who did all the development on the TCB, open soundcard and the scout..
But i really believe in the capabilities of the complete openpanzer concept.. All the other tank controlboards are very restrictive.. The TCB gave me the room i needed to control all the different projects i have standing around here!
While the Benedini has quite a good sound quality it just doesn't feel quite right on how it interacts with the TCB..
I need to build some opensound prototypes first to test myselves and then maybe start a small series...
(Oh, and i am envisioning a new project.. Panzerwerfer 42)
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Thanks everyone for the information provided, all of interest! Luke I do think you do yourself a disservice! I am the ultimate novice on a steep learning curve (more like a cliff actually), and I have found the OP board a good choice nonetheless. Partly as it is so clearly and well explained on this forum, with so much information and guidance provided, not so readily available for the Likes of Elmod, Clarke and IBU3, in addition to which none of these are really able to cater for large scale (heavy) tanks. I think all of these require a certain willingness to learn and have certain foibles (although I don't know anything about the Taigen one you mention). Although I have as yet to get stuck in to the practical application of the board (I am still trying to acquire the hardware!), I am looking forward to it!
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I'm glade I read from here before I ordered the TBS Mini to let Thomas know I was using it on the TCB Open Panzer Board and got the program cable also and also read Rad's post on the Chinese knock off and the program cable he recommended got them to for simple sound card .
Thanks
Jimmy
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Hello!
I have Benedini Mini v1 and got a problem.
When I want to upload the OP parameter it shows the pop-up message attached.
Also, engine start, idle, user sounds are working but there is no throttle sounds (I set the throttle and stearing to the right stick, will it change the program somehow?)
I attached some pics what I did (i set the prop settings manually)
One more: when I want to play user sound with turret stick, it starts in every stick position (I set the function to "Top left" and "Top right"...looks like positioning is not okay)
Thanks for the help
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I see you are using TBS Flash v4.0. The most recent version I have is 3.0 so Thomas must have released an update recently. Possibly that is the problem. I will need to talk to him and see if anything has changed, and obtain the latest version so I can test it here. Give me a week or so to contact him and see what he says.
In the meantime if you have TBS Flash v3 you can try that.
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I have Benedini Mini v1 and got a problem.
When I want to upload the OP parameter it shows the pop-up message attached.
Looking more closely at your images, it appears you are trying to import the Open Panzer Prop Settings on the Parameter tab of TBS Flash. The Prop Settings must be loaded on the Diagnostic tab of TBS Flash (used to be called the Misc tab in Flash v3 and earlier).
There are no pre-configured Open Panzer parameter files for the Parameter tab, but you can create your own.
You might also want to run through Radio Setup in OP Config once more, and make sure you have all your channels assigned correctly. It's fine to have steering and throttle on the right stick (that is what I do), but during radio setup you just must make sure that when you move the throttle stick that OP Config shows it correctly assigned to throttle, and the same for steering, elevation and rotation.
Maybe you can also post your current OPZ file and I will take a look.
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In the meantime if you have TBS Flash v3 you can try that.
Thank you Luke!
In the meantime can you check the log attached? I must be sure I not screwed up something.
Thank again!
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Ok, I can see that your radio setup was not completed correctly. For example, for your throttle channel the min and max are set to 1500 and 1508. They should be something more like 1000 and 2000. The same is true for your other stick channels. This explains why you have no throttle response and why the turret stick functions are not working correctly.
Read again the Radio Setup (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:opconfig:tabs:radio) and perform the radio setup routine once again.
Also I notice that you have functions to turn on and off the transmission when the engine turns on and off. This is not a problem but is unnecessary. When you start the engine the transmission is automatically engaged (after any Transmission Engage Delay setting from the Driving tab), and when you turn off the engine the transmission is automatically disengaged, you don't need any functions for that.
The reason there are functions for manually disengaging the transmission is that you could assign a switch to that, and then when your engine is running you can manually turn off the transmission. Now the model will not move but the engine sounds will still be running, smoker, etc... You can "rev" the throttle and hear all the sounds but your tank will stay stationary until you re-engage the transmission. But other than for that purpose, you don't need to use the transmission functions.
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Hey Luke!
Thank you for your support!
Ok, I can see that your radio setup was not completed correctly. For example, for your throttle channel the min and max are set to 1500 and 1508. They should be something more like 1000 and 2000. The same is true for your other stick channels. This explains why you have no throttle response and why the turret stick functions are not working correctly.
Hmm... I managed the radio settings 2x, maybe I forgot to upload it to the board :/ I will do it at home again and report the result
Looking more closely at your images, it appears you are trying to import the Open Panzer Prop Settings on the Parameter tab of TBS Flash. The Prop Settings must be loaded on the Diagnostic tab of TBS Flash (used to be called the Misc tab in Flash v3 and earlier).
The V4.0 flash is different, I think. There is no upload button on "Diagnostic" tab. I wanted to open the parameter from "File - Open" Parameter browse menu. When I click on "Open" this message showed up. I opened the "Parameter" tab for showing you the settings (helping you to identify the user error, if any).
Thanks and regards
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Something is wrong
When I wanted to read parameter from Benedini this message showed up:
Lásd az üzenet végét ezen párbeszédpanel helyett
az igény szerinti hibakeresés megjelenítéséhez.
************** Kivétel szövege **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: A(z) „0” érték érvénytelen a következőhöz: „Value”. „Value” értéke csak 'Minimum' és 'Maximum' közötti lehet.
Paraméter neve: Value
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown.set_Value(Decimal value)
a következő helyen: TBS_Flash.Main.UpdateParameterPageValues()
a következő helyen: TBS_Flash.Main.btnReadParameter_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
a következő helyen: System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
[...] //not relevan (Rongyos)
The attached error message said:
Error does not handle exception in the application. If you push Continue the application will pass th error and try to continue running. In case of push Exit the application exit.
The "0" value is not valid for the field: "Value". "Value" should between "Minimum" and "Maximum". Parameter name: Value
Sorry I translated it fast :(
I would attach the prop and parameter settings but this forum cannot apply this file extention.
I discovered the solution myself when I was writing this reply :D I read the PROP1 value in the tbs-flash and realized the neutral is not 121 but was 123. I changed it in the prop menu and and I have movement sound :D (The benedini IS-2 soundset is terrible, but I can say thats a success)
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Hmm... I managed the radio settings 2x, maybe I forgot to upload it to the board :/ I will do it at home again and report the result
It looked like all that happened was you maybe forgot to move the sticks to their extremes when doing the "Save Min/Max" function, but your aux channels seemed correct. I'm sure if you go through it again it will be fixed.
The V4.0 flash is different, I think. There is no upload button on "Diagnostic" tab. I wanted to open the parameter from "File - Open" Parameter browse menu. When I click on "Open" this message showed up. I opened the "Parameter" tab for showing you the settings (helping you to identify the user error, if any).
Ok, I understand. Is there any option in the "File" menu to open a "Prop settings" file?
Either way, it seems Thomas has changed the prop values because 121 was correct for Flash v3 (EDIT - no, the values remain the same for all versions of Flash, continue reading below). I have changed the forum settings so you can now attach a "tbc" file. Now that you have discovered the correct values, are you able to save your prop settings from Flash v4 and post them here?
I have requested a copy of Flash v4 from Thomas but have not yet heard back.
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It looked like all that happened was you maybe forgot to move the sticks to their extremes when doing the "Save Min/Max" function, but your aux channels seemed correct. I'm sure if you go through it again it will be fixed.
Yes, I missed the step when the software is waiting for the min/max values. I set it again and works fine
Either way, it seems Thomas has changed the prop values because 121 was correct for Flash v3. I have changed the forum settings so you can now attach a "tbc" file. Now that you have discovered the correct values, are you able to save your prop settings from Flash v4 and post them here?
I attached the working .tbc Can you add the .tbp extension too?
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Ok, you can now upload ".tbp" files as well, but remember - there is no single parameter file that will work for every user, because people can load their sounds in any order or their Benedini sound file set may have the sounds in a different order. So sharing parameter files is not very useful.
Back to the issue with the prop settings - I have obtained a copy of TBS Flash v4 and spoken with Thomas. No changes have been made to the operation of the Mini when it comes to the prop settings, so the original values should be correct. I have tested Flash v4 with my own Mini and the original prop settings work just fine, and when I read the Prop 1 values in TBS Flash I see neutral at 121 (sometimes flickering to 122). I am going to assume that maybe you have some subtrim active on your throttle channel, this would be very easy to do especially if you are using a transmitter with analog trims. Or possibly it was still an issue with your radio setup where it had not saved the center stick position correctly.
However it is perfectly ok for you to adjust the Prop 1 neutral value as you did, and anyway 123 is still very close to 121. But for the official prop settings files and the documentation I am leaving the numbers as they were before.
The one change that did happen with Flash v4 is that files from earlier versions of Flash won't load, even though the actual values remain the same. I have posted new prop settings files (".tbc") to the Wiki page (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:tcb:tcbinstall:sound_benedini_v3#diagnostic_misc_tab) for every compatible version of Flash and the Mini (he now has a Mini V2 with expanded memory). But as I say, all the values remain the same.
The good news is it sounds like you have everything working now, both with your Benedini and your Taigen card. But let me know if you have any more problems!
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Hi Luke!
You are sure, I modified the trim for the throttle because I made a DIY self-centering stick accessory and it did not fit perfectly.
Few month ago I changed this stuff and forgot to set the trim again. I going to set it when I have time.
Do you know why the .NET framework error message appeared for me? I have Win10 EDU x64. Its missing some correct "value" parameter but I cant find what is this.
Thank you for your support!
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Do you know why the .NET framework error message appeared for me? I have Win10 EDU x64. Its missing some correct "value" parameter but I cant find what is this.
I don't know, this is Thomas's program and that error message is not very helpful. It also doesn't really seem to be an error because the program still works. I doubt it has anything to do with your Windows version.
I had a similar message when I was experimenting with Flash v4. If you notice, you can select either the TBS-Mini or the TBS-Mini V2. You have to select the correct one for the device you are using, and then you have to update the firmware on it. Also the paramater files are different for the Mini and V2 even though all the settings are the same. It may be that you accidentally tried using a file from the V2 for the Mini or vice-versa.
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We have a similar problem to this one.
TBS mini V1 the sound files load, and the prop files from the wiki load but the parameters file doesn't load and reports an error. on our mini V2 it works fine.
Firmware is up to date.
Do we have to load the parameters manually on the V1?
Also there are 3 different king tiger files are listed under the TCB what are the differences?
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Hallo
Ich habe auch Minni und micro bei Banggood gekauft nachdem ich mich von Elmod verabschiedet habe.
Wenn was bei Elmod (Dark Rider) nicht Funktioniert einschicken und wird wohl nicht mehr zu reparieren sein ist die Antwort.
Dann kaufe ein neues für 230 Euro.
Und minni und DasMikro habe ich erst später rausgefunden das es kopien sind und es ist mir völlig egal von wo sie kommen
Sie funktionieren und der Preiß war auch in Ordnung.
Es gibt Das Minni V1 bei Banggood 10ner anschlußleiste im Moment für56,00 Euro
Und der chinese kopiert alles .
Gruß wolfgang
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TBS mini V1 the sound files load, and the prop files from the wiki load but the parameters file doesn't load and reports an error. on our mini V2 it works fine.
Firmware is up to date.
Do we have to load the parameters manually on the V1?
Yes typically the user will have to enter the Parameters manually because they can be different for each person depending on which sounds you are using and in which order. However, I understand that after you have set the parameters to your liking you may wish to save a Parameter file (.tbp) for your own use. I have the same experience as you do - if the device is set to TBS Mini V1, TBS Flash will give me an error when I try to load a Parameter file, even if it is one I have just saved a few moments before. When the device is set to TBS Mini V2 then it loads the .tbp file without error.
I don't know why TBS Flash is doing this but only Thomas can fix it.
Also there are 3 different king tiger files are listed under the TCB what are the differences?
I am not sure why there are three King Tiger sound sets. My login to the Benedini downloads page no longer works so I can't see, but I wonder if he had a different set for each of the three devices (Micro, Mini V1 and Mini V2)? But then of course you would expect three sets for each tank. I think you will just have to try them yourself to see what the differences are, if any.
I am sorry I can not be of more help with this issues but I think these questions will need to be addressed to Thomas himself.
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Thanks Luke, all working as it should now.
I prefer the 2nd sound set but the gun sounds are lacking in all the benedini sounds so custom sound files are next on my hit list.
May try the openpanzer sound if I can get my head around whats needed.