Open Panzer
Open Panzer Help & Info => Open Panzer Help => Topic started by: rockchuck on December 02, 2017, 09:29:16 PM
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Hello Luke
first up I would like to thank you for all your work and the other developers who have made this TCB a success.
I have just started to get into my TCB. The radio I'm using is the new Turnigy 9x AFHDS 2A with the IA8 PPM rx. I have flashed this to the latest version of ER9x and it works ok -- however you won't get any response from tcb when you are in the radio function -- you see the chans but no response. I had to set the PROTOCOL to NEG in the model setting in the 9x radio then it could see the chans responding to input.
My questions is regarding the aux chans 1-4 that I have access to as the radio is only 8 chans.
The radio has 6 two way switches , 1 three way switch and three pots that all have to share the 4 aux channels. It looks like its a one switch per channel only option which means more than half on my discreet switching/pot options on my radio can't be used unless I upgrade the TX/Rx modules to 16 chan. The latest ER9x software - suppports 16 chans so is this my only option.
I read about the Turrent stick also doubles up as a 9 position switch. Can I used this to set up some mixes on my radio to then assign the unused switches to these 9 positions? How will this impact on the basic turrent functions-- I assume you can't use this 9 positions at the same time that you rotate the turrent/elevate gun etc.
Thanks again
Rockchuck
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Rockchuck, thanks for your report on the new Turnigy AFHDS 2A transmitter, I saw they recently released it but you're the first I know to try it. I wonder if the PPM would have worked even without the ER9X software. The other thing you could have tried would have been to connect the receiver to the bottom radio connector on the TCB, yes even though PPM is supposed to go into the top. The bottom connector inverts the signal so it might have worked. But anyway you got it figured out so that's good.
The 9 position switch on the turret stick is a feature built into the TCB and those 9 positions can't be accessed independently by other channels on your transmitter, they are inextricably tied to the two channels of your turret stick. Now I suppose with some rather fancy radio programming you could probably cause other physical switches on your transmitter to actually mix with the turret stick channels such that you virtually create a turret stick movement through another control. Trying to wrap my head around the mixes for this gives me a headache but with ER9X no doubt it is possible somehow.
Either way, yes in fact you can still control the turret with the turret stick even if you use the turret stick triggers. I'm sure you've already read the Wiki page on this (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:tcb:operation:triggerlist), but the way it works is only when you hold your turret stick all the way to some corner or edge does the trigger occur, but regular turret stick movements not quite to the edge operates the turret normally. In practice it is hard to actually get 9 switches out of it, realistically it works best when you keep it to 4 (either the 4 corners or the 4 edges, you can do both corners and edges but often you will trip the wrong one by accident).
I would give the turret stick triggers a try just to see what you think, it's very similar to how Tamiya and other aftermarket boards work. Even if you only use 4 of them plus the 4 extra channels you already have that gives you 8 triggers to play with.
If you can swing the extra expense an FrSky XJT module and receiver is a good investment and then you are free to use all 16 channels. The good thing about getting a module transmitter such as you have done is that you can always do that upgrade later.
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Thanks Luke for your reply.
I did try the Turnigy 9x AFHDS 2A radio with the stock firmware but it was very hard to navigate around the different menus. I did have it communicate with the TCB and when I used the radio commands test in OP the chans did show up and they did respond to stick moments but they seemed very jittery.
Anyhow I couldn't live with the stock firmware in the radio so flashed it to ER9X -- a lot easier to navigate and the response through the tcb in the Radio mode look very stable and no jitters.
I have been looking at the FrSky module you mentioned but they are aud $100 and I have to get them from the HK Global warehouse-- which has very high shipping costs to Australia. I only paid aud $62 for the new 9x as HK had a sale on that's why I bought it-- you can't beat that price for the amount of functions you get in the radio.
However the new 9x radio may look like it is a modular construction for the transmitter unit in the back - which gives the impression you can just swap it out with the FrSky BUT they have the same installation as the older 9X units in that the coax cable from the aerial is run into the Tx module and soldered onto the cct board.
So you would have to do the Tx module hack to fit another Tx unit.
I will try the radio mixer options to see if I can get them to work with the TCB turret stick commands. I have other control units like rcta ASP and a Elmod so I want to keep the radio stick moments and switch functions the same on the different platforms if I can, otherwise I will have to have an instruction manual taped to the different radios so I know what switch etc to use.
Looking forward to the Sound Modules becoming available.
cheers
rockchuck
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This is all very good information about this transmitter. The 9x has been out for so many years now and has been so popular you'd think some manufacturer would finally just release a version of it that got everything right, but they never quite get there...
I definitely know what you mean about needing instruction manuals for each model... Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
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Hello,
The Turnigy 9x can be used out of the box with the TCB, ELMOD, Clark and all other availaible control boards.
The output functions must be assigned in the menu Model - that's all.
The Turnigy 9x is the most modded transmitter i know, look at here:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1616229-9X-FlySky-iMax-Turnigy-Eurgle-FOR-DUMMIES (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1616229-9X-FlySky-iMax-Turnigy-Eurgle-FOR-DUMMIES)
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The Turnigy 9x can be used out of the box with the TCB, ELMOD, Clark and all other availaible control boards.
Actually until last month this was only true of the Clark, Elmod and others, but not the TCB. The problem was that there was no PPM receiver available for the stock module that comes with the 9X, and the TCB requires at least PPM. But just last month they released the new AFHDS 2A version that comes with a PPM receiver, so now it can be used out of the box.
Of course you could always change the module and use an aftermarket receiver with the TCB, but that is not quite "out of the box"...
Anyway, this is just splitting hairs. :) I love the 9X and have several of them, including a 9Xtreme version I have modified to have 20 physical controls. I prefer it even to my Taranis which cost a lot more but gathers dust!
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Hey Luke,
let us split some Hair:
My comment is related to the actual Turnigy 9x...... :o
In my Th9x is the AR9x board, with XJT Module and Taranis Hall Effect Gimbals.
I use this Radio only for testing and my Wife for her Panzer III.
For my Collection of Panthers and the Jagdtiger i use a Tranis X9D+ Special or my very new X9E. ;)
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The Turnigy 9x can be used out of the box with the TCB, ELMOD, Clark and all other availaible control boards.
Actually until last month this was only true of the Clark, Elmod and others, but not the TCB. The problem was that there was no PPM receiver available for the stock module that comes with the 9X, and the TCB requires at least PPM. But just last month they released the new AFHDS 2A version that comes with a PPM receiver, so now it can be used out of the box.
Of course you could always change the module and use an aftermarket receiver with the TCB, but that is not quite "out of the box"...
Anyway, this is just splitting hairs. :) I love the 9X and have several of them, including a 9Xtreme version I have modified to have 20 physical controls. I prefer it even to my Taranis which cost a lot more but gathers dust!
Small offtopic here: I am another proud user of a heavily modified 9x with 9xtreme among a bunch of other mods, and sometimes I wonder if it would not have been better to just buy a Taranis and saving so much headache and pain modifying the radio... But then sometimes I read comments like yours and I am happy to take the mod way. Or at least I say that to me, lol.
I think I have seen your radio in a video, and it had taranis gimbals and sliders and some more mods. Maybe you can open a thread showing what you did... And I might copy something if there is still room and options in my radio.
Also I installed a multiprotocol module but I have not tested it yet. What receiver would you recommend me for the open panzer board, as cheap as possible but with battery telemetry? (yep, I have read the modules wiki, but considering I have the multiprotocol module you might have a something in mind)
Price for the module is important, I still have to save some funds for buying an open panzer board for myself...
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Hi Rad, my apologies for never replying to this (I violated my own rule and wrote you via PM!)
The Multiprotocol module allows telemetry with some receivers but depending on what you have done to your 9X you may need to modify the 9X itself so that telemetry data is fed back to the processor, you can find more information on this page of the Multiprotocol GitHub (https://github.com/pascallanger/DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module/blob/master/docs/Transmitters.md).
The Multiprocol is compatible with FrSky D-Series receivers so one that I like would be the D4R-II (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/frsky-d4r-ii-4ch-2-4ghz-accst-receiver-w-telemetry.html) and it does have telemetry. Connect it to the PPM port on the TCB and you will get 8 channels (yes, even though it is called a 4-channel radio).
If you want to get 16 channels you would need to move up to the FrSky X-Series and I don't believe Multiprotocol supports that. As I suggested before, my preference is the XJT module (will fit your 9x, or any future Taranis/Qx7/etc...). Then you have many choices for X-Series receivers but I like the X4R-SB which also has telemetry.
You are right about my 9x, it has shown up in some videos. If I get some time I might take some pictures of it, but this thread by João (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=7987) over on OpenRCForums was my inspiration, I did most of the mods he details although I used higher quality buttons on the back of my case and also some rocker switches in the back as well. Of course many of these mods assume a 9Xtreme board which are no longer produced. I can't remember if it is possible to add extra channels to the stock 9X board, but I think not.
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That Joao thread has been a lot of inspiration for a lot of people, including mself, lol. He also helped me a lot when I had problems.
I installed a 9xtreme (Hope it is produced again, but it looks like it is sadly gone forever...)
I did the reverse polarity battery mod,
The PPM protection mod.
Replaced all the 2 pos switches with 3 pos ones.
Replaced a pot with a 6 pos switch (One of the best mods ever!)
Installed a multiprotocol module inside, and I can update it with the 9xtreme.
https://www.banggood.com/de/2_4G-CC2500-NRF24L01-A7105-CTRF6936-4-IN-1-Multi-protocol-STM32-TX-Module-With-Antenna-p-1153902.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN
And as far as I know, yes, it works with 16 ch receivers, and also the telemetry wires are connected to the 9xtreme, so it should work. The only thing I have to buy is the receiver, and Ill probarbly buy the one you told me... But I have also seen this one, which is cheaper and smaller:
EDIT: Link fixed
https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-XSR-2_4GHz-16CH-ACCST-Receiver-S-Bus-CPPM-Output-Support-X9D-X9E-X9DP-X12S-X-Series-p-1031481.html?cur_warehouse=CN
I think it might be a good receiver too...
About adding more channels with a 9x... Well, I have seen some threads of people that added another extra 8 channels installing another stock module inside... But flashing er9x is mandatory.
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Hi Rad,
the second link is the same as the first =>Multiprotocol-Module
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Hi Rad,
the second link is the same as the first =>Multiprotocol-Module
Oh my bad. That's what happens when you write while working, lol.
This is the link I wanted to post:
https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-XSR-2_4GHz-16CH-ACCST-Receiver-S-Bus-CPPM-Output-Support-X9D-X9E-X9DP-X12S-X-Series-p-1031481.html?cur_warehouse=CN
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Rad, that's an FrSky X-series receiver and to my knowledge the Multiprotocol module is only compatible with FrSky D-series. I could be wrong but that's my understanding and that's what Multiprotocol documentation shows (https://github.com/pascallanger/DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module/blob/master/Protocols_Details.md).
Your 9Xtreme board can certainly handle 16 channels, but the limitation in your system is your Multiprotocol module, which was designed primarily to control cheap toy-grade quads that don't use many channels. FrSky D-Series is capped at 8 channels, you would need to upgrade to an XJT module in order to use X-Series receivers and thus all 16 channels.
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Rad, that's an FrSky X-series receiver and to my knowledge the Multiprotocol module is only compatible with FrSky D-series. I could be wrong but that's my understanding and that's what Multiprotocol documentation shows (https://github.com/pascallanger/DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module/blob/master/Protocols_Details.md).
Your 9Xtreme board can certainly handle 16 channels, but the limitation in your system is your Multiprotocol module, which was designed primarily to control cheap toy-grade quads that don't use many channels. FrSky D-Series is capped at 8 channels, you would need to upgrade to an XJT module in order to use X-Series receivers and thus all 16 channels.
Uh, oh... I hope you are wrong, because if not, I bought the module for nothing...
The module for cheap toys is this one:
https://www.banggood.com/Multiprotocol-TX-Module-For-Frsky-X9D-X9D-Plus-X12S-Flysky-TH9X-Transmitter-p-1097688.html
And according to the link you provided....
FRSKYV = FrSky 1 way - 25
Models: FrSky receivers V8R4, V8R7 and V8FR.
FRSKYD - 3
Models: FrSky receivers D4R and D8R. DIY RX-F801 and RX-F802 receivers. Also known as D8.
FRSKYX - 15
Models: FrSky receivers X4R, X6R and X8R. Also known as D16.
Extended limits and failsafe supported
Telemetry enabled for A1 (RxBatt), A2, RSSI, TSSI and Hub
Option for this protocol is fine frequency tuning. This value is different for each Module. To determine this value:
find a value where the RX accepts to bind. A good start is to use one of these values -40, 0 and 40.
find the values min/max where the RX loses connection. In serial mode you can change the value and see the effect live.
set the value to half way between min and max.
video showing the process
Sub_protocol CH_16 - 0
FCC protocol 16 channels @18ms
So I think it should work. Doesn't it?
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Hi Rad,
you need Firmware V1.1.6
My Module is V1.1.5 and could not bind with X8R!
Try all things what possible -different Firmware with and without LBT - no chance.
Have actual no time for modify the Module with soldering in pins for Firmwareupgrade.... 8)
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Rad you may be right, I was looking only at the table at the top of the page which lists "FrSkyD," but as you point out when you scroll down they specifically mention FrSky X.
I've noticed that features change so fast and frequently on the Multiprotocol project that the documentation rarely keeps up and I have to dig through thousands of forum posts to get the real scoop. So it very well could be that X-Series are supported now.
You'll just have to buy a receiver and try it!
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Hi, yep, this keeps updating and evolving so fast, that is very hard to not to loose yourself between hundreds of posts and forums everywhere.
For updating the firmware I did not have to solderanything to the module. I just followed some video tutorials from Joao at rc universe. I had to flash a lot of things to it, but definitelly there was no need to solder anything. And now I can update the module from the radio itself.
Today I am travelling to Spain, and I will put the tutorial link here when I grab a computer. You might find it useful.
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Hi Rad,
you need Firmware V1.1.6
My Module is V1.1.5 and could not bind with X8R!
Try all things what possible -different Firmware with and without LBT - no chance.
Have actual no time for modify the Module with soldering in pins for Firmwareupgrade.... 8)
Hi Jhamm, here are the promised video tutorials, courtesy of Mr Joao.
And this is the thread with tons of info:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2165676-DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module
I think it would be a good idea to skip the first 700 pages, due to they are probarbly more than obsolete.
I already asked there if it is possible to use that receiver with this module, because this is the one I am planning to use with the Open Panzer board.
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Quick update here. I received the XSR receiver today, https://hobbyking.com/en_us/frsky-xsr-2-4-ghz-accst-receiver.html?___store=en_us and I bound it with the multiprotocol module. Just some important things to keep in mind:
First, it comes with no connector, so you have to provide one. I salvaged a futaba like connector from a dead servo.
Then you have to solder the wires. Black to black (GND), red to red (+), the yellow is for telemetry, so I did not touch it (yet, lol), the green is for CPPM, which I left untouched too, and the white is the SBUS one, and you have to connect it too.)
Then for binding the module, is important to choose the Protocol, which is FrskyX, the type (that means, the firmware the receiver has, EU16ch (Europe) or CH16 (China) it was china in my case. You can change the software in the receiver, but why to bother if you can select the one you have with the radio? :)
After some unsuccesfull tries binding, I found in a forum that I had to change the module frecuency. The stock frecuency is set to 0 and the tutorial said to first try with +40 or -40. If it does not work, to keep increasing the numbers until it works. In my case it worked with +40.
Then I connected the Open Panzer board to the computer, and in the "Op config" program I clicked on "read radio" and then I was able to check that my receiver was receiving all my signals. :)
I am very happy now and this is only the beginning!
EDIT: This is my first receiver with telemetry. Do you have any idea of what do I need or what do I have to do to see the battery voltage in my radio?
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Rad, this is why I recommend the X4R-SB receiver which is very small, does not require any soldering, and also includes a convenient AIN (analog input) for direct voltage monitoring of your onboard battery using a cheap FBVS-01 (https://alofthobbies.com/frsky-battery-voltage-sensor-fbvs-01.html) (or you can make your own voltage divider for almost no cost with a few resistors).
The XSR receiver only uses SPort for telemetry which requires you to purchase this expensive and bulky add-on for voltage monitoring: SP-FLVS (https://alofthobbies.com/frsky-sp-flvs-smart-port-lipo-voltage-sensor.html).
However if you want to hack your XSR you can still use the cheaper method described above, see this thread on RC Groups (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2659706-Frsky-XSR-Receiver-analogue-voltage-input).
Also, for anyone stumbling across this thread in the future, remember that Rad is using a Multiprotocol module (https://github.com/pascallanger/DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module/blob/master/docs/Transmitters.md) in his radio. You will not have to worry about any of these complicated binding details if you use an FrSky module and receiver.
I know Rad you like to tinker, but for 99% of everyone else I want to advise just buy standard gear and you will save yourself a lot of work and trouble, and in the end you will probably save money too.