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Offline smaily

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"Manual" transmission possibilty
« on: November 24, 2017, 03:31:30 AM »
Hello all,
firts of all I would like to say, that I just got two OP TCP from HK. I did not had time to play around with it yet, but I am checking all options there are. I am king of a newbie within RC tanking, so I will probably come with some more questions, but wiki is nice source of information, so hopefully I will find what I will need.

Now to topic I am interested in.
Due to my radio does not have centered stick (and it seems like cool idea to me) for throttle, I am playing with idea to have throttle just as "gas pedal" or accelerator for the engine. And as there is already sort of transmission defined, I would like to know, if it would be possible to assign one 3 position switch as a gearbox/transmission control, one position for forward drive, second position as neutral gear (so just engine rev with throttle) and finally third position for reverse drive gear. This way there will be one more stick position as spare for some function for those, who have stick for throttle centered by radio.

Well I did not find this on the wiki and I expect that this is not normally supported, question is if it would be somehow possible to do such thing and if it will even make sense to do it, or to put some work on that.

THX

PS: I really like work You have done with OP TCB, as this is not a business case, but more like hobby, I am huge fan of such projects and people working on them within their free time.

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 09:46:25 AM »
Hi Smaily, that is an interesting suggestion and I agree it would be a good feature to have for those without self-centering throttle. I think it should be possible to create this effect. I have added this to my short-term list as I don't think it will be very complicated (we shall see). I can't promise when I will have it completed but hopefully I will have some more time to work on this project during the holiday break.

Thanks for the good idea and I will let you know when I make progress on it.
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Offline smaily

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 02:08:07 AM »
Thanks for quick response :) Take Your time, for now I will use actual operation of TCB and anyway my Pz. III is completely dismantled for upgrade process ;D

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2017, 08:38:06 PM »
Smaily, I wanted to let you know I've added this feature to the latest firmware release (you will have to update OP Config first and then also flash the latest firmware to the TCB, both should be version 0.92.13 or later)

You will now see three new functions in the function list Manual Transmission - Forward / Reverse / Neutral (here is their entry in the Wiki). If nothing is assigned to these functions the TCB operates as usual (forward and reverse are controlled by up and down throttle stick). But if you assign those three functions to a 3-position switch the TCB will operate in manual mode where you control the direction with the switch and the throttle stick only controls speed.

There are a few things to note about this mode of operation:
  • The TCB will not let you start the engine unless you have manually selected the neutral gear. This is for your own safety.
  • When you select forward or reverse the transmission is automatically engaged for you. So there is no need to assign anything to the transmission engage/disengage functions (those will be for people using the normal method).
  • Beware, there will be no brake possible when using a manual transmission! In normal operation you can apply brake by moving your throttle stick in the opposite direction of travel, for example if you are moving forward you would brake by pulling the throttle stick down. However in manual transmission mode the throttle stick no longer has a forward or reverse, so there is no "opposite" direction. But you can cause the brake to be applied if you manually switch gears from forward to reverse or vice-versa. Note that changing to neutral gear still allows your model to coast to a stop! Braking is really only needed if you are driving with medium to high levels of deceleration constraint (momentum), which causes the model to take a long time to come to a stop.
  • Neutral turns (if enabled) will be accomplished by bringing throttle all the way to zero, and then moving the left/right stick. It doesn't matter if you are in forward or reverse gear.
As usual, whenever I make any changes to code there is a good chance I could have broken something or introduced a bug, so let me know if you find any unusual behavior!

Thanks again for the good suggestion. I think this feature will be useful to a lot of people.
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Offline smaily

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 08:37:32 AM »
Thanks LukeZ, that was one quick implementation. I will update my board today and test it how it works.

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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 08:11:59 AM »
This is a very very nice feature! Great idea!

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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 07:34:21 AM »
I have been thinking about this feature, which definitelly sounds amazing. I am still waiting for my SBUS receiver to be able to start messing with the open panzer board... Damn post service! I already ordered other receiver, hope it arrives soon.


But I have been thinking about this feature, and even expanding it. I think it might be a good idea  to be able to change gears too. Not only forwards, backwards and neutral, but to have some gears forward and a couple backwards, triggering them with a switch. (I am going to add some push buttons at the back of my radio for doing it) I think with some mixes in the radio it could be done too, but it is always easier if the board does itself.

Of course it wont be very practical for IR battlers who like jackrabit their king tiger front and backwards when batling, but for those looking for a realistic drive sounds great, doesnt it?

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 01:30:25 PM »
Hi Rad, this is an interesting idea but I am having a hard time envisioning how it will work.

For example let us say we have 3 gears. What would be the change in behavior as we advance through gears 1, 2, and 3? Would they simply apply an increasing upper limit to the vehicle speed? I'm not sure that would add much in terms of operation.

I suppose they could also apply an increasing lower limit, such that if you are in gear 3 you can not slow down into gear 2 speeds without down-shifting. That would be more of a noticeable behavior change, but would also not be very realistic since of course in real life we can come to a stop in any gear just by pressing the clutch.

Presumably one would probably have to advance through the gears to accelerate and if they stopped at any point would need to remember to return to first gear (or neutral) before the vehicle would permit movement once more.

I think this could get complicated both in implementation and also in terms of the user interface, and might not add much in the end except possibly frustration for the user!

But maybe you can describe what you had in mind.
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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 01:27:58 AM »
Hi Luke, my idea is quite complicated to explain in English because it is not my native languaje, but I will try.

My idea is to have the most realistic control possible, something like the PC flight simulators. Having to press a bunch of triggers and switches that simulate diferent things in the tank control. I think it will be fun for the hardcore tanking experience chasers, but completelly unneficient in RC combat... Well, not unneficient, if everybody drives that way, the IR battles would be way more realistic. (not jackrabbiting back and forwards all the time, and not driving from 0 to max speed in half a second...).

Also I am not asking you to add it to the openpanzer because I am sure most of the people wont use it and indeed it might be complicated for the vast majority of users, and also I think most of the features can be achieved with some radio wizzard-programming. In fact I think everything will work except the sounds. I will experiment with it and I will ask our colleagues at openrcforums.

What I am planning to do, is (in my case) using a very modded 9x. I am going to add 4 push momentary switches at the back of the radio as soon as I receive them from china, but it could be done with the switches too.

Basically is what you described. Lets use the big stock 3 pos switch (The name I think is ID, but dont know what does it mean, lol) as a gear changer (for backwards (down) neutral (neutral) and forward (up)

If you have that switch in UP for going forward, I think it would be a good idea to be able to drive forwards to, lets say, a 25%. Then pressing (in my case) one of the push buttons at the back of the radio, to be able to change to one gear up, and to drive from 25% to 75%, and a last third speed from 75% to 100% of course the ammount of gears and porcentages might vary, this is just a very raw idea. Also when from second to upper gears, when having trottle in 0 it could switch off the engine...

Also, complicating the things a bit more, my idea is to have a clutch that can be used for stopping whenever you want, and for being able to change the gear. Also another switch with emergency brake if needed?

Yeah, I know it sounds complicated... But in my opinion it is cooler than using just the stick for doing everything... At least over the paper looks like a cool idea, but maybe after some minutes turns to annoying and boring. I guess I wont know until I try.


I think the only difference between just programming the radio for doing it, and letting the openpanzer board do it, would be the engine sound. With just radio programming at the top rpm of the first gear the motor will sound like it is almost idling when it should sound like top speed.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 03:16:10 AM by Rad_Schuhart »

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 09:07:20 PM »
English may not be your native language, but no Englishman would know it to read what you write. Foreigners have various levels of success in clear communication of difficult topics, and sometimes we have to read between the lines, but in your case it is no exaggeration to say that you are communicating at a level far beyond probably the majority of the population born and raised in this country.

At any rate I understand what you are proposing. I think if I were to try to implement it I would start first with simple gear selector functions, and each gear would increase the maximum possible speed. But at the beginning I would leave off the clutch, and killing the engine if the throttle gets too low in higher gears, etc... And then test to see what it is like, and perhaps increase the complications from there. It could become quite unwieldy quickly, but nevertheless I do understand the desire for something complicated and realistic. Sometimes that is more fun than simple.

I will mull this over and maybe if I have some extra time play with it a little bit. I also added it to the long term To-Do list. Unlike some features which I have added in short order, I won't make any promises on this one because I do think the programming effort would be significant and the number of users would be small.

However if you get any of this sort of thing working through your transmitter I would be interested to hear about it, and maybe others as well, so I hope you post your experiences.

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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2018, 03:39:16 AM »
Thanks your your kind words, Luke. :)


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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 03:33:50 AM »
Well, again, I cant thank enought the guys at openrcforums. I managed to have 3 gears and 3 speeds with one in reverse. It needs a bit of polishing, but it works!

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 03:03:15 PM »
Perhaps you can post the link to your thread at OpenRC so others following along can see what you did.
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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 04:17:19 PM »
Perhaps you can post the link to your thread at OpenRC so others following along can see what you did.

Yes, that's the idea. I have not posted it yet, because at this moment is in early stages of testing and it might confuse people more than help. I will even post my eepesky files so people can download them. I also wanted to post a video of it, but it seems I forgot, lol.

Here is the first test video:


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Offline Rad_Schuhart

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Re: "Manual" transmission possibilty
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 03:08:54 AM »
Some news here with the virtual gears system. New video and I have the file ready to share with everyone, the problem is the web does not accept .rar files. Can it be changed? Winzip is a pain.


Meanwhile I will be happy to send the model file to everyone, just give me a private message with your email and I will happily send it to you.

 

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