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Offline Lotuswins

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Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« on: October 17, 2018, 10:16:08 PM »
Hi Luke,

Well after a couple of hours working on the issue of the TCB starting out with the airsoft switch (channel 5 on my 9x's) enabled when it was in the disabled position, I finally discovered it was the 'trigger with cannon' box in the MOTORS SECTION;MECHANICAL BARREL of the OP config.  I had it checked even though the note next to it said 'if unchecked use function trigger'.  I had reasoned how else can you trigger the airsoft??  so left it checked.  Anyway, apparently it overrides the position of the switch assigned to it. 
Not sure if you want to fix this? or just leave it as apparently I'm the only idiot who has had the problem (dooh!!)

Thanks, Jerry

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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 10:36:39 PM »
Hi again,

I just thought I'd mention an anomaly to my discovery.  One of the 6 boards that I have connected to airsoft cannons did not have the issue.  It worked perfectly even though the box was checked to 'trigger with cannon'.  I cannot understand why, but all the others responded correctly when I unchecked the box.  This one board also will have cannon sound when the engine is off, all the others have no cannon sound when the engine is off though they will have track recoil. 

This isn't an issue, just thought you'd like to know that not all of my TCBs were exactly the same, even though as far as I can determine, they all are setup the same.....ghosts I presume??? (Halloween ??)
 ???
jerry

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 04:42:53 PM »
I might not remember exactly all the details of the original problem or of your setup. When the "Trigger with Cannon" option is checked it means that the airsoft action will automatically occur when you trigger the Cannon Fire function. So yes, in that sense a trigger is still required, but the Cannon Fire function basically does a half-dozen things with a single function (sound, light, servo recoil, airsoft, IR, track recoil, etc, etc...). If you un-check that option, you can still trigger the airsoft but you will have to use the Fire Airsoft / Mechanical Recoil Unit function and it will only run the airsoft action but none of the other components of cannon fire.

I guess it is a little confusing, and almost everyone will want to leave that option checked, but by unchecking it you have the ability to create your own cannon fire effect by using half a dozen functions instead of the single Cannon Fire function.

Anyway, that explains that option. I'm assuming you are using the Cannon Fire function rather than a bunch of individual functions. And that ironically, when you uncheck the option to include airsoft with Cannon Fire, meaning it should no longer be active at all, you are able to re-activate it with the airsoft enable/disable functions. But when you leave the option checked, it tends to "overwrite" the initial setting of your enable/disable switch such that it always starts up enabled.

Do I have that correct? If so it might be something I can correct, it sounds like just an issue with the order in which settings are applied at startup.

For now let's ignore the 1 of 6 exceptional case because that is just going to muddy the waters. As for the cannon sound, what sound cards are you using? The Taigen sound card will not play the cannon sound unless the engine is running, that is a limitation of the Taigen and nothing to do with the TCB. All other sound cards should play the cannon sound at any time, engine running or not.
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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2018, 02:41:00 PM »
Hi Luke,

Thanks for the quick reply, and you do have it correct (at least in my mind) that the checking of the box enables the airsoft, which apparently is later in the setup and overwrites the switch position at startup.  It shows "enabled" when I snoop the startup, but "disabled" when I uncheck the box under snoop.  All seems to be working with cannon fire by left stick upper right, including sound, IR, track recoil, and airsoft enabled with the box unchecked.  Rearranging the startup sequence would be great as if someone sets it like me, and forgets to cycle the switch, the airsoft would discharge perhaps at an inopertune moment or location?  Better to be safe than sorry my Mother used to say.....lol.

As for the sound of the cannon, I have three benedini, and two will have cannon sound with engine not started.  None of the Taigen have cannon sound without engine running, like you said.  The only difference is the one that doesn't sound is hooked up Sbus from the PWM converter, besides it being the only ESC motor controller with the Benedini.  Not an issue though, just was wondering. I'll swich it back to PWM to see if that changes it.  I only went to Sbus to help quell the motors chattering with the noisy smoker motor, which seems to be an issue with the ESC motor drivers. 

Thanks again,  Jerry

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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 05:52:14 PM »
Hi Luke,

I switched to PWM/PPM from PWM/Sbus, no effect.....then noticed the sound pot which is acting like a 3 position switch was turned down, so the sound was off.  Once turned up, it did sound with engine off....so all is as it should be......dooh!! number 2.....

Jerry

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 03:00:27 PM »
Ok Jerry, had a bit of time to look at this finally. In fact the sequence of events at startup is correct - the more general "Trigger with Cannon" setting is applied first, and then secondly if the user has assigned a function trigger to manually enable/disable the airsoft that setting is applied afterwards by whatever position your switch happens to be in.

Testing on my end everything works as it should and you would expect. Even with "Trigger with Cannon" checked, if I assign enable/disable airsoft to a switch, and have that switch in the disabled position at startup, then the TCB loads the disabled setting, and airsoft doesn't fire until I specifically enable it. Therefore we know the code at least can work, and does for me. Going back through our earlier discussion of this, it seems like we are back to where we ended at that time.

This leads me to think that the next step is for you to examine more closely the exception we had put aside earlier:
I just thought I'd mention an anomaly to my discovery.  One of the 6 boards that I have connected to airsoft cannons did not have the issue.  It worked perfectly even though the box was checked to 'trigger with cannon'.  I cannot understand why, but all the others responded correctly when I unchecked the box.  ..just thought you'd like to know that not all of my TCBs were exactly the same, even though as far as I can determine, they all are setup the same.....

It appears that even for you the code can work correctly in some cases. We need to pinpoint what is different about that one tank than the others? Are you perhaps using the nice SBus receiver for that one tank and those pesky PWM-PPM converters on the other 5?
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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 03:09:20 PM »
Another simple and silly thing to try is start your tank with your airsoft switch in the enabled position. What happens? Ie, could it be possible that you accidentally have the switch positions reversed? You can also confirm how the switch is working by toggling it while snooping.
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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 01:27:21 PM »
Hi Luke,

That is interesting!!.....well, first to answer your questions:

Luke:What happens? Ie, could it be possible that you accidentally have the switch positions reversed? You can also confirm how the switch is working by toggling it while snooping.
Jerry: Nope, which is was simple like that.  In snoop mode, when starting the tank up initially it shows the airsoft switch in enabled position, which it is, of course, in the disabled position.  When I cycle the switch to enabled, it doesn't show a change in status, but move it back to disabled and it shows a change of state to disabled. 

Luke:Are you perhaps using the nice SBus receiver for that one tank and those pesky PWM-PPM converters on the other 5

Jerry: Great minds and all that!  I now have one XJT module installed, and the first thing I did was swap it into an airsoft tank with this issue, as well as noise issues from the smoker motor.  Unfortunately, no joy.  The only two things the new module and XSR recvr did was the control stick readings are now rock solid when reading the radio, and when I turn off the radio the lights on the tank immediately start to blink (indicating the loss of signal should now work).  Otherwise, no noticeable operational changes.  I also noticed if I get the antenna's too close to the Mini/Amp, I start to get a feedback hum.  Anyways, not sorry about the module change, having the rcvrs so small is a definite plus as well as the loss of signal now working. 

I will go back and check/uncheck the 'trigger with cannon' on both the anomaly tank (Russian KV2) and one that misbehaves (German KV2) to ensure it is repeatable.  Both are nearly identical (motor controllers differ), and the German has the PWM/Sbus converter vs the Russian has a just installed XSR Sbus rcvr (the russians get all the goodies....lol).  If not, I'll swap back the old PWM/PPM rcvr into the Russian, and repeat the test.  This is getting fun to troubleshoot!

jerry


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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 08:53:37 PM »
Hi Luke,

So I checked the box on the one that works (KV2 Russian) and no change, still worked as it should.  Then I checked the box on the other KV2 (German), and it still performed as before, with the airsoft enabled, with the switch set to disable.  Here is a snoop of the German:

Radio Ready - SBus

---------------------------------------------
FIRMWARE VERSION: 0.93.07

---------------------------------------------
RADIO INFO - SBus
---------------------------------------------
Stick       Min    Center   Max    Deadband  Reversed
---------------------------------------------
Throttle    893    1484     2110    25        FALSE
Turn        893    1484     2108    25        FALSE
Elevation   929    1492     2075    25        FALSE
Azimuth     928    1484     2073    25        FALSE

Aux Chan.   Min     Max     Type
---------------------------------------------
1           893     2108    Digital
2           893     2110    Digital
3           893     2108    Digital
4           1483    1500    Digital
5           1500    1520    Analog
6           1500    1520    Analog
7           1500    1520    Analog
8           1500    1520    Analog
9           1500    1520    Analog
10          1500    1520    Analog
11          1500    1520    Analog
12          1500    1520    Analog
---------------------------------------------
Channels detected: 16
Channels utilized: 16

---------------------------------------------
MOTOR TYPES
---------------------------------------------
Drive Motors:      Servo/ESC
Turret Rotation:   Onboard Motor Driver (A)
Barrel Elevation:  Onboard Motor Driver (B)
Mechanical Barrel: Airsoft (Enabled)

---------------------------------------------
DRIVE SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Vehicle Type:           Tank
Active Driving Profile: 1
Accel Ramp Enabled:     No
Decel Ramp Enabled:     No
Motor Nudge Enabled:    No
Forward Speed Limited:  No
Reverse Speed Limited:  Yes - 75%
Transmission Type:      Automatic
Shift Time:             0.0 sec
Engine Pause Time:      0.0 sec
Transmission Delay:     0.0 sec
Neutral Turn Allowed:   No
Turn Mode:              2
Track Recoil Enabled:   Yes (Kickback speed 40%, Deceleration factor 50)

---------------------------------------------
TURRET SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Turret Rotation Speed Limited:  No
Barrel Elevation Speed Limited: No
Recoil delay:                   No

---------------------------------------------
BATTLE INFO
---------------------------------------------
Is Repair Tank?   No
Fire Protocol:    Tamiya
Hit Protocol 2:   Taigen V1
Repaired by:      IBU Repair
Send MG IR Code:  No
Accept MG Damage: No
Damage Profile:   Tamiya Spec
Weight Class:     Heavy
(9 cannon hits, 9.0 sec reload, 10.0 sec recovery)

---------------------------------------------
SOUND CARD
---------------------------------------------
Sound card: Benedini TBS Mini

---------------------------------------------
INERTIAL MEASUREMENT UNIT
---------------------------------------------
Sensor not detected!

---------------------------------------------
FUNCTION TRIGGERS
---------------------------------------------
Turret stick functions: Yes
Turret movement delay:  0.35 sec
Turret Stick - Top Left       -> Function #1   - Engine - Toggle On/Off
Turret Stick - Top Right      -> Function #7   - Cannon Fire
Turret Stick - Bottom Left    -> Function #84  - Smoker - Toggle
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #11  - Machine Gun - Fire
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #12  - Machine Gun - Stop
Turret Stick - Bottom Right   -> Function #16  - Light 1 (Headlights) - Toggle On/Off
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #13  - Airsoft/Mech Recoil - Enable
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #14  - Airsoft/Mech Recoil - Disable
Turret Stick - Bottom Right   -> Function #22  - Running Lights - Toggle On/Off
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 1 (of 3) -> Function #98  - Start Increasing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 3 (of 3) -> Function #99  - Start Decreasing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 2 (of 3) -> Function #100 - Stop Changing Volume

---------------------------------------------
BATTERY
---------------------------------------------
Battery Detected: Yes
Voltage:          7.53v
LVC Enabled:      Yes (6.3v cutoff)

---------------------------------------------
BAUD RATES
---------------------------------------------
USB Serial Baud:   115200
Motor Serial Baud: 38400
Aux Serial Baud:   115200
Serial 3 Tx Baud:  38400

---------------------------------------------
RADIO FAILSAFE
Radio Ready - SBus
Comms changed to USB

I might note that it is difficult to get a snoop from the German, whether it is the rcvr converter, or what, I don't know but it took a while before it would print the debug messages.  I had to switch on/off the power, snoop- connect - disconnect - read the tank...etc. etc. before it finally came up.  I didn't document the steps in the process since I was uncertain of success.  The 'Comms changed to USB' message seems to repeat alot once Snoop started working, even with no input from me?  When I connect to the tank, I have to Snoop first, then click Connect before it will connect properly.  It won't connect without hitting Snoop first. Doubt if this has anything to do with the root problem, just marginal communications over the USB.

So good news is its repeatable, and is an issue with either the XJT rcvr or V2 Turnigy 9x with PWM/Sbus converter.  Bad news, I'm stumped on what difference could cause it. 
Differences between tanks:

Item   German    Russian

Motor   ESC          sabertooth
Rcvr     V2 Turnigy   Frsky XSR

Otherwise, Same sound card, amp, speaker, battery, all turret equipment and motors.
 
Other tanks with the same problem previously but not retested include:

Panther, T34 - Taigen sound card, V2 Turnigy rcvr, sabertooth
StugIII -Taigen sound card, V2 Turnigy rcvr, ESCs
KV1 - Taigen sound card, XSR rcvr, Scout

All are now working as they should w/o box checked.   Not sure where to go from here......if at all....?  Would the track recoil have anything to do with it?? 

jerry


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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 09:11:11 PM »
Oh, just in case...for comparison...here is the Snoop of the Russian KV2:

<- 31|31|0|-28996
Radio Ready - SBus

---------------------------------------------
FIRMWARE VERSION: 0.93.07

---------------------------------------------
RADIO INFO - SBus
---------------------------------------------
Stick       Min    Center   Max    Deadband  Reversed
---------------------------------------------
Throttle    989    1500     2012    25        FALSE
Turn        989    1500     2011    25        FALSE
Elevation  1024    1500     1977    25        FALSE
Azimuth    1024    1500     1976    25        FALSE

Aux Chan.   Min     Max     Type
---------------------------------------------
1           984     2012    Digital
2           985     2013    Digital
3           989     2012    Digital
4           1496    1503    Digital
5           1500    1505    Analog
6           1495    1505    Analog
7           1497    1505    Analog
8           1495    1503    Analog
9           880     1500    Analog
10          880     1500    Analog
11          880     1500    Analog
12          880     1500    Analog
---------------------------------------------
Channels detected: 16
Channels utilized: 16

---------------------------------------------
MOTOR TYPES
---------------------------------------------
Drive Motors:      Sabertooth Serial
Turret Rotation:   Onboard Motor Driver (A)
Barrel Elevation:  Onboard Motor Driver (B)
Mechanical Barrel: Airsoft (Disabled)

---------------------------------------------
DRIVE SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Vehicle Type:           Tank
Active Driving Profile: 1
Accel Ramp Enabled:     No
Decel Ramp Enabled:     No
Motor Nudge Enabled:    No
Forward Speed Limited:  No
Reverse Speed Limited:  Yes - 60%
Transmission Type:      Automatic
Shift Time:             0.0 sec
Engine Pause Time:      0.0 sec
Transmission Delay:     0.0 sec
Neutral Turn Allowed:   No
Turn Mode:              2
Track Recoil Enabled:   Yes (Kickback speed 40%, Deceleration factor 50)

---------------------------------------------
TURRET SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Turret Rotation Speed Limited:  No
Barrel Elevation Speed Limited: No
Recoil delay:                   No

---------------------------------------------
BATTLE INFO
---------------------------------------------
Is Repair Tank?   No
Fire Protocol:    Tamiya
Hit Protocol 2:   Taigen V1
Repaired by:      IBU Repair
Send MG IR Code:  No
Accept MG Damage: No
Damage Profile:   Tamiya Spec
Weight Class:     Heavy
(9 cannon hits, 9.0 sec reload, 10.0 sec recovery)


---------------------------------------------
SOUND CARD
---------------------------------------------
Sound card: Benedini TBS Mini

---------------------------------------------
INERTIAL MEASUREMENT UNIT
---------------------------------------------
Sensor not detected!

---------------------------------------------
FUNCTION TRIGGERS
---------------------------------------------
Turret stick functions: Yes
Turret movement delay:  0.35 sec
Turret Stick - Top Left       -> Function #1   - Engine - Toggle On/Off
Turret Stick - Top Right      -> Function #7   - Cannon Fire
Turret Stick - Bottom Left    -> Function #84  - Smoker - Toggle
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #11  - Machine Gun - Fire
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #12  - Machine Gun - Stop
Turret Stick - Bottom Right   -> Function #16  - Light 1 (Headlights) - Toggle On/Off
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #13  - Airsoft/Mech Recoil - Enable
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #14  - Airsoft/Mech Recoil - Disable
Turret Stick - Bottom Right   -> Function #22  - Running Lights - Toggle On/Off
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 1 (of 3) -> Function #98  - Start Increasing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 3 (of 3) -> Function #99  - Start Decreasing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 2 (of 3) -> Function #100 - Stop Changing Volume

---------------------------------------------
BATTERY
---------------------------------------------
Battery Detected: No
LVC Enabled:      No

---------------------------------------------
BAUD RATES
---------------------------------------------
USB Serial Baud:   115200
Motor Serial Baud: 38400
Aux Serial Baud:   115200
Serial 3 Tx Baud:  38400

---------------------------------------------
Smoker enabled

Jerry

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 09:39:19 PM »
Can you post the OPZ of your German KV2? I'll test it on this end just to see if there is maybe some strange combination of settings unique to your selections that is causing the issue, though I doubt it.

The message "Comms changed to USB" will only appear if Dipswitch #5 changes from the Off position (communication over bluetooth) to the On position (communication over USB). I wonder if you have a flaky dipswitch. If you aren't manually flipping that switch that message should never appear. If there is something faulty with that switch it would definitely explain the difficulty you have in connecting. The fact that debugging info takes a long time to appear is also strange, but it could also be related to a flaky switch.

You will notice after your German KV finally does dump the debug information the first thing it does next is lose connection with the radio, or more accurately, it lost connection during the time it took to write the debug info. This does not happen with your other model that has native SBus, which again shows the more reliable connection you get with that setup.

I still don't know what's causing your issue, I'll test your OPZ but I'm not expecting much. If we can't find anything you will just have to work around it by unchecking the "Trigger with Cannon" option on those models, which although I never planned it that way, turns out to be a pretty handy fix to  your specific problem.

You mentioned the XSR receiver can cause noise in the sound card, I have noticed that as well, and it's important to install them apart. The XSR and most of these new receivers not only receive but actually have a built-in transmitter as well, to return telemetry back to your radio (even if you are not using that feature). So that is what can cause interference.
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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 12:31:56 PM »
Hi Luke,

thanks for the quick reply, here is the .opz file for the German KV2....I'll cycle that dip switch to see if it helps....thanks for the tip.   jerry
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germankv2.opz
(22.88 kB ~ Downloads: 311)

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 02:00:11 PM »
Ok, that did it. What a long investigation this has been! Of all things the issue was caused by having LVC enabled. A bug in the firmware skipped the first initialization of aux channel triggers only when LVC is active. I usually don't have it on because I do most of my testing with USB power only on the bench, so that is why I never saw it.

I've released a firmware update (v0.93.43). It won't erase saved settings but looking at your debugs your TCBs are a few versions behind so I think one of the intermediate releases probably will erase your settings, therefore be sure to save OPZ files before you do the update, and then re-write your settings.

After the update, you should be able to confirm that with A) LVC enabled, B) Trigger with Cannon checked, and C) your airsoft switch in the disabled position, your TCB should load up with the airsoft actually and truly disabled. If you watch Snoop it may say that the airsoft is enabled during the dump but immediately after the dump it will read your switch and set it to disabled.

Let me know if it really does work!
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Offline Lotuswins

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 04:14:16 PM »
Great, that was quick!  I checked back, and sure enough all the other TCBs of mine had the LVC enabled EXCEPT the Russian KV2.  Yes, with the LVC engaged, the Barrel checked, the airsoft was initially enabled on the snoop dump, but at the end it was disabled.  I checked operation before downloading the new firmware, and then after and it all works as you described.  Thanks so much for clearing that all up. 

Just a quick question though, where exactly do the radio settings/reads reside?  are they included in the .opz file? or do they only reside in the TCB? When I just updated the firmware, I had to re-read the radio for some reason...not sure why, maybe like you said my firmware was a little out of date though no message occurred.   Only got one that said to check OPConfig for updates.

Thanks again, all clear now!!  Jerry

Oh, and I cycled the #5 switch on the board, and snoop comes up right away now....I cycled the other 4 too, just to be sure and it seems one has a weak spring (#2) as it doesn't snap from side to side like the others.....perhaps a dodgy switch.  Is CHE a brand for those??  I'll let it be for now, but if it continues I'll have to change it out.  Any others report a problem with the dip switch?

jerry

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Airsoft switch position detection issue solved
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 04:35:33 PM »
Just a quick question though, where exactly do the radio settings/reads reside?  are they included in the .opz file? or do they only reside in the TCB? When I just updated the firmware, I had to re-read the radio for some reason...not sure why, maybe like you said my firmware was a little out of date though no message occurred.   Only got one that said to check OPConfig for updates.
The radio settings like all the others are included in the OPZ file (as well as on the TCB naturally, when you write the OPZ file to it). This particular update (v0.93.43) doesn't cause an erasure of settings which is why it doesn't say anything about it, but that's only relative to the last update (0.93.42). Your TCBs were all the way back on 0.93.07, so as I said before, there were intermediate updates between 93.07 and 93.43 that would cause your settings to be erased.


Oh, and I cycled the #5 switch on the board, and snoop comes up right away now....I cycled the other 4 too, just to be sure and it seems one has a weak spring (#2) as it doesn't snap from side to side like the others.....perhaps a dodgy switch.  Is CHE a brand for those??  I'll let it be for now, but if it continues I'll have to change it out.  Any others report a problem with the dip switch?
I have seen one other report of a faulty dipswitch, see here. No doubt Hobby King is using a cheap component, I guess the good news is we don't need to use them much after their initial setting. I'm not familiar with CHE brand.

If yours remains flaky you could try to short the two pins of the #5 switch. This will cause it to be permanently set to ON meaning it will always communicate over USB.
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