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Having problem with IR Battle
« on: September 17, 2018, 05:08:36 AM »
Hi guys,

I just buy OpenPanzer and test setup it using Taigen IR equipment from my Taigen Panzer III.
When I tested by making a shot to my Taigen M4A3 Sherman, Sherman only took 1 hit and destroyed.

Did I set something wrong?

Here is my setting.

Btw, I also have Beier USM-HL2, could it possible use with OpenPanzer?

Cheers,
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Having problem with IR Battle Capture.PNG
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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 01:37:19 PM »
That is simply how the Taigen works - one shot and it's dead. The number of hits that you can specify in OP Config determine the number of hits the TCB can receive, but it has no ability to modify the behavior of the other device. Tamiya is the standard and if you had a Tamiya MFU you could tell it how many hits to receive before death, aka, the "weight class." But the Taigen is a very simple device, one hit one kill. Your TCB is working properly.

The Beier USM-HL-2 is only compatible with certain Taigen and Heng Long units as described on their page, basically the RX-18. So no, it will not work with the TCB.

It would be possible to use the Beier USM-RC-2 in conjunction with the TCB, if you have a receiver that will output standard PWM servo signals in addition to the PPM, SBus or Ibus that the TCB requires. I have also considered adding code that would more closely allow integration with the USM-RC-2 with the TCB in a similar manner to the way the Benedini Mini has been integrated, but to date this code has not been added as I've never been motivated enough to purchase the Beier. To my knowledge very few people actually use it, compared to the number of people using the Benedini.

But you could still use it as a parallel device because the USM-RC-2 is simply controlled via standard RC.
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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2018, 12:20:24 PM »
Thank you for your reply, Lukez.

I and my colleague, we will have RC Tank exhibition with IR Battle on early of next month.
Before I get OP board I have already advertised to many customers that this board have many interesting function,
and it can battle with many brands including Taigen.
We also have plan to get many OP boards to install in our customers' tanks for more realistic IR Battle.

But from what I understand, you can't use OP board to battle with normal Taigen tanks, am I right?
Because a tank with Taigen V2/V3 board will be one shot one kill, if get a shot from OP board.
Even I try using Sherman with Taigen V3 board shoot to OP board, OP board works fine with many hits I set in OP Config before it destroyed.

By far, I have test many boards such as Elmod, IBU, Clark, Beier. For me, Beier is the best for sound.
I still don't have chance to test Benedini TBS, but I will get it soon to install with OP board.

Moreover, I using Hobbywing Quirun 1060 2 units with HobbyKing BEC Eliminator Cable and they work great.

Afterall I still like OP board and would like to install it to Taigen Metal Leopard 2A6 that will be arrived my shop soon.

Cheers




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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 02:05:06 PM »
You absolutely can use the TCB to battle with Taigen tanks, as you have demonstrated yourself. If you want it to be a fair battle, you should set the TCB to also become destroyed with 1 hit. You can do this under the "Custom Weight Class" on the Battle tab of OP Config, and then selecting the custom class on the TCB using the dipswitches.

We can not change the behavior of the Taigen board, it is what it is. But you can of course change the behavior of the TCB to match it.
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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 05:45:19 AM »
Yes, I understand you, LukeZ.

Normally, Taigen VS Taigen is not one shot one kill, it took many shots before destroyed. So that I try to change OP setting into match number hit with original Taigen board.
The interesting thing is OP board can set behavior of damage the same as Tamiya. I and my friend don't mind about Taigen board behavior as you told that we can not change the behavior of the Taigen board.

Yes, it might have some handicaps because Taigen board did not decrease speed when they got hit. But many of my customers are ok with it.
They told me that "Even my friend with Taigen board did not get speed decreased but I have fun, my tank looks more realistic with OP board".

I will tell my customers and my group that if they want to install OP board, you can battle with Taigen board using 1 hit match.

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 01:17:41 PM »
Normally, Taigen VS Taigen is not one shot one kill, it took many shots before destroyed. So that I try to change OP setting into match number hit with original Taigen board.

Ok, that is interesting. In my testing Taigen always dies after 1 hit (ie, engine must be restarted). How many hits does your Taigen take from another Taigen before being destroyed? What Taigen versions are you using?

Taigen IR is a very strange thing. There are three versions of the board as we know (V1, V2, and V3) and each one uses a slightly different IR signal. In fact, I have also identified two variants of the V2 board (I call them V2-A and V2-B) and they also use a different IR signal! In every case the IR signal is close, but not exactly the same. There are also two versions of the Taigen IR receiver (early green board and later red board). It seems to me Taigen has not cared very much about IR functionality and have been very sloppy with development and compatibility.
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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 04:40:05 PM »
Ok, thank you Baichow because in the end you actually have identified a bug. The Taigen boards should accept 5 hits before being destroyed. This was confirmed for me by Imex-Erik over at Taigen. I have posted a new firmware update that should correct this problem (v0.93.42). You can download it and flash your board from within OP Config.

Long explanation for those curious: with the exception of Taigen, all other manufacturers send their IR signal multiple times for each cannon fire event. The purpose of this is to make it more likely for the receiving tank to detect the hit. The number of repetitions, and the length of the signal to begin with, all vary by manufacturer. Tamiya is the worst, they have a long signal and they repeat it 50 times, which equates to one full second. This has enabled the infamous Tamiya "fan-shot." It does make it easier for the opposing tank to register the hit, but maybe is a bit excessive.

On the other hand, Taigen is at the opposite extreme. They have a very short signal and they only send it once. Total time is 1/100th of a second for V2/V3 boards (was even shorter for V1 boards). When I first encountered this I thought, let's have the TCB repeat the signal several times, the way every other manufacturer does. I set it to repeat 6 times which is what Heng Long does. But this was a mistake, as you can now see. The Taigen board will register all six hits instantaneously, and since that is more than 5, it goes straight to destroyed. The other manufacturers, and the TCB, all know to ignore subsequent hits for a brief period of time after the first complete message is received, but the Taigen was never programmed to do so.

In short, the original problem is that I made what I thought would be an "improvement" based on an "assumption" about the way other manufacturers did things. And in fact, it caused this bug instead.

The fix was simple - tell the TCB to only sends the Tagien IR signal one time per shot. You should now be able to shoot your Taigen 5 times before it registers as destroyed.

Thanks again for helping me pinpoint this problem, and my apologies I didn't recognize it sooner. You were right to begin with!
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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 12:34:57 AM »
Thank you so much LukeZ,

I just have time to test the new firmware and wow it works like charm. Right now both OP and Taigen board can battle without any problem.

However, I found that my tank run weird. Throttle is at channel 2 and Steering channel 4.

In OP config motors page:
Vehicle: Dual motor
Drive mode: RC output

I am using 2 hobbywing 60A esc with F/R.

When I plug
Motor left + to ESC + & Motor left - to ESC -
Motor Right + to ESC + & Motor Right - to ESC -
If put throttle to forward, Motor right run forward and motor left run backward.

Then, I change to
Motor left - to ESC + & Motor left + to ESC -
Motor Right + to ESC + & Motor Right - to ESC -
Okay, it can move forward and backward now, but when you steering
- Steering without throttle: move stick to right it turn left & move stick to left it turn right
- Steering with throttle: move stick to right it turn right & move stick to left it turn left

How can I fix this problem, have to adjust in remote? I am using Flysky TM-10.

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 01:04:09 AM »
That is a very strange problem that doesn't make sense. Something is amiss with your setup. Obviously the second connection scheme that you describe is correct in terms of backwards and forwards. However, a right turn is always a right turn. The TCB sends the same right turn signal no matter whether you are stopped or moving.

I would connect to OP Config and click "Read Radio." Now move your throttle and steering stick and make sure the direction that you move the stick is reflected in OP Config - see the example below where I have moved my throttle forward and steering to the right, and OP Config shows Forward and Right. If OP Config does not match the actual direction, you should Reverse the channel(s) until it does. Then you may need to re-arrange the motor wires to your ESCs.

The other thing to be sure is that your ESCs do not have a brake setting turned on. They should be forward/reverse, not forward/brake/reverse.

See if any of that helps, and post back your results.
RadioSetup.jpg
Having problem with IR Battle RadioSetup.jpg
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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
Hello again LukeZ,

Right now they works perfectly, I think this issue was occurred, because I reverse my channel 3.
So I put channel 3 to normal and reconnect all wires, my tank run very smooth.

Thank you very much LukeZ.

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Offline LukeZ

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Re: Having problem with IR Battle
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2018, 02:20:00 PM »
Great!
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