Open Panzer

Open Panzer Help & Info => Open Panzer Help => Topic started by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 06:17:55 AM

Title: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 06:17:55 AM
Hi,
i setup the TCB as described.
Driving is beautiful.
Turret works great.
But all LED is on.
- MG LED is allways on - no flash on trigger, Sound work
- Cannon LED is allways on - no flash on trigger, Sound work
- Light 1 and Light 2 did not react on trigger
- brake LED is allways on

I checked it on all my four TCB and it is all the same.... 

Look at the configuration:
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 11:55:45 AM
That's strange. If you have four TCBs and they all exhibit the same problem, it almost implies a hardware issue on the light outputs. They work fine on my end but I don't yet have a TCB from this production run to examine, just prototypes.

Some things to try:
- Operate the lights while connected to the computer in Snoop mode. The TCB should show you in the console window whether it is actually trying to turn on/off Light 1 and 2.
- Set "Blink all lights when Radio signal lost" and turn off your transmitter/or unplug your receiver. Do L1/L2/MG/Brake flash now?

What version of TCB Firmware do you have loaded? You see the firmware version at the bottom of the OP Config window after you connect to the TCB.

Finally, this probably won't help much, but perhaps you could take a close-up picture of the TCB board for me to look at.

Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 11:59:24 AM
On a completely unrelated note - you don't need to assign Transmission On/Off triggers, or at least it doesn't make sense to do so on the same trigger as the engine.

When the Engine is turned on, the transmission is automatically engaged (after a brief delay to allow the startup engine sound to play, the length of this delay is specified by you in the Transmission Engage Delay setting on the Driving tab). When you turn the Engine off, the Transmission is automatically disengaged. So you could eliminate those two function triggers.

If you wanted to engage/disengage the transmission on another channel you would be able to do so while the engine was still running. This would allow you to "rev the engine" on the sound card, without actually moving your tank.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 12:54:47 PM
Hi,
did you not get a Production Sample?

 I set "Blink all lights when Radio signal lost" and turn off the transmitter.
No flash on L1/L2/MG/Brake.
The lights do nothing while connected to the computer in Snoop mode, they allways on.

Here is the Snoop Output:

<- 31|31|0|-28996
Radio Ready - SBus

---------------------------------------------
FIRMWARE VERSION: 0.92.05

---------------------------------------------
RADIO INFO - SBus
---------------------------------------------
Stick       Min    Center   Max    Deadband  Reversed
---------------------------------------------
Throttle   1000    1500     2000    15        FALSE
Turn       1000    1500     2000    15        FALSE
Elevation  1000    1500     2000    15        FALSE
Azimuth    1000    1500     2000    15        FALSE

Aux Chan.   Min     Max     Type
---------------------------------------------
1           1000    2000    Digital
2           1000    2000    Digital
3           1000    2000    Digital
4           1000    2000    Digital
5           1000    2000    Digital
6           1000    2000    Digital
7           1000    2000    Digital
8           1000    2000    Digital
9           1000    2000    Digital
10          1000    2000    Digital
11          1000    2000    Digital
12          1000    2000    Digital
---------------------------------------------
Channels detected: 16
Channels utilized: 16

---------------------------------------------
MOTOR TYPES
---------------------------------------------
Drive Motors:      Servo/ESC
Turret Rotation:   Onboard Motor Driver (A)
Barrel Elevation:  Pan Servo
Mechanical Barrel: Mechanical recoil

---------------------------------------------
DRIVE SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Vehicle Type:           Tank
Active Driving Profile: 1
Accel Ramp Enabled:     No
Decel Ramp Enabled:     No
Motor Nudge Enabled:    No
Forward Speed Limited:  No
Reverse Speed Limited:  Yes - 50%
Shift time:             1.0 sec
Engine pause time:      1.0 sec
Transmission delay:     1.0 sec
Neutral turn allowed:   No
Turn mode:              3

---------------------------------------------
TURRET SETTINGS
---------------------------------------------
Turret Rotation Speed Limited:  No
Barrel Elevation Speed Limited: No
Recoil delay:                   0.10
 sec

---------------------------------------------
BATTLE INFO
---------------------------------------------
IR & Tank Battling Disabled

---------------------------------------------
SOUND CARD
---------------------------------------------
Sound card: Benedini TBS Mini

---------------------------------------------
INERTIAL MEASUREMENT UNIT
---------------------------------------------
Sensor not detected!

---------------------------------------------
FUNCTION TRIGGERS
---------------------------------------------
Turret stick functions: None
Aux Channel  4 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #7  - Cannon Fire
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #2  - Engine - Turn On
Aux Channel  1 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #3  - Engine - Turn Off
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 1 (of 2) -> Function #11 - Machine Gun - Fire
Aux Channel  2 - Pos 2 (of 2) -> Function #12 - Machine Gun - Stop
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 1 (of 3) -> Function #98 - Start Increasing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 2 (of 3) -> Function #100 - Stop Changing Volume
Aux Channel  3 - Pos 3 (of 3) -> Function #99 - Start Decreasing Volume

---------------------------------------------
BATTERY
---------------------------------------------
Battery Detected: No
LVC Enabled:      Yes (6.4v cutoff)

---------------------------------------------
BAUD RATES
---------------------------------------------
USB Serial Baud:   115200
Motor Serial Baud: 38400
Aux Serial Baud:   115200
Serial 3 Tx Baud:  38400

---------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 12:59:39 PM
They sent me a production sample but it has not yet arrived. I've just tried ordering one myself as it will probably be faster, but the website is already showing out of stock...

The Snoop you posted is just the data dump at the beginning. What you need to do is view the Snoop output while you toggle your Aux Channel 3. You should see messages like "Light 1 turned on" or "Light 2 turned off" etc...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 01:04:13 PM
Here is another test that should isolate the problem as software or hardware. I have attached a very simple sketch, it will blink all the top row lights (Aux, L1, L2, Brake, MG) as well as the onboard red and green LEDs. That's all it does, you won't be able to control your tank with this sketch.

Download this hex file, go to the Firmware tab of OP Config, click "Use your own Hex" and point it to the file you downloaded, then Flash. If you open Snoop you should see alternating messages "Lights on" / "Lights off".

If the messages appear in the console window, and if the Red/Green LEDs blink, but none of the other lights blink, then almost certainly there is a hardware issue.

I've asked Hobby King to do a test on their end, but they don't work much on the weekend so it will probably be next week before I hear anything back.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 01:07:48 PM
Hi,
at Snoop is no action while i switch Lights on / off.

Attachment of the Pictures failed, i put they on my Server:

(http://www.hyperstation.de/Front.jpg)

(http://www.hyperstation.de/Back.jpg)

Notify me if you copy the Picture, than i  delete the Pictures from the Server.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 01:14:41 PM
Hi,
Ok i did the Test...
We have a Problem- the Lights did not flash - they allways on.
Only the Red and Green Led near the Input-Switch is blinking.

EDIT:
i think i find the Failure:
Q1 - Q5 are wrong Types:
When i trigger the Cannon, the is a short Signal arraond 0,8V on Q1
When i trigger MG there is a Signal arrond 2,2V on Q5
 
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 01:44:51 PM
I've saved the photos so you can take them down.

From the test sketch, I would agree with you there seems to be a hardware problem.

Just because I like to be very thorough, I want to understand your earlier comment: "at Snoop is no action while i switch Lights on / off"

Can you reload the regular firmware onto the TCB. All your settings will have been lost when you flashed the test sketch, so hopefully you saved an OPZ file first, otherwise you will need to go through radio setup again. Go to the Misc tab of OP Config and make sure the "Print debug messages" option is checked. Load these settings on to the TCB.

Now once more toggle your lights using the switches on your transmitter, while in Snoop mode. If there is a hardware problem the lights will do nothing, but I should still expect to see debug messages appear in the console, like I've attached below. That is what it looks like when I move my switches back and forth to turn on/off the lights.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 02:15:28 PM
OK,
i see action, look attached Picture...
How much Voltage on Pin 1 (G) is necessary?
I mesure on Q4 pin 1 when Motor is off  4,92 Volt  when Motor is on  is 0 V
This is functional correct, but the Mosfet did not switch...
The Mosfet is signed 23EG...

How can I test if it is the right Mosfet?

I will order 50 pieces of IRLML2502 = 9,00 €  its cheaper than sending the boards back to HongKong
Then i exchange one, if this works, then I also solder the others..
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 02:29:54 PM
On Pin 1 (G) of the MOSFET, the voltage should be 0.0 (ground) when the light is off, and ~5v when the light is on.

On Pin 3 (D) of the MOSFET, the opposite should be true - when the light is on the voltage should be 0.0 (ground), and ~5v when the light is off.

In other words, the LEDs are always given a 5 volt signal on the anode side. The MOSFET is switching the connection to ground of the cathode leg.

If the G pin of the MOSFET is behaving as expected, we can know the ATmega is working correctly. If the D pin of the MOSFET always remains at ~5v, the problem is with the MOSFET (or perhaps the PCB, but unlikely). I wonder if Hobby King used a different MOSFET on the board than in the specification.

Here is also another light-testing sketch, this time the blinking is much slower. Makes it easier to see the voltage change on a digital multimeter.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 02:40:28 PM
Look at the attached Picture, the PCB is right.
In sum are  8x IRLML2502 on the TCB.
How can i check Q6 to Q8 is work?
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 03:34:25 PM
Q6 controls the IR output (look on the bottom of the board for the IR label). But beware, it provides full battery voltage (> 5v). The output will do nothing unless you have a battery plugged in, USB power alone will not operate it.

Q7 controls the hit notification LEDs. These can be identified on the bottom of the board on the APPLE connector, they are labelled Hit LED.

Q8 controls the recoil/airsoft motor. These are are the NEG/POS terminals on the RECOIL connector.

These obviously use different plugs than the standard light outputs, and the polarity may be different, so be careful when testing.

Here is yet another sketch, this will blink all MOSFETS Q1 through Q8 slowly.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 03:51:19 PM
OK,
i will use this for testing next week.
I am able to solder SMD and have the right equipment to exchange the wrong Mosfet.

Only driving, Sound and Turret is functional = 50% of the Controlbaord
I think this is a big Problem for HK.
They have to take back the TCB and refund the cost...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 15, 2017, 04:01:38 PM
From your photo the MOSFETs appear larger than IRLML2502. If you have calipers can you check dimension "E"? They look wider than 1.4mm to me.

You can also see if you can identify the markings and compare them against the datasheet (https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irlml2502pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a401535668048e2606).

Edit: You can compare to the visual dimensions of these MOSFETS on my hand assembled prototype. Excuse the lint!
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 15, 2017, 11:58:40 PM
Hello,
i measure:
E=1,5mm
D=2,9mm

The marking = 23EG
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 16, 2017, 12:50:48 AM
Thanks for checking, clearly these are not the part specified...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 16, 2017, 03:18:46 AM
Thanks for checking, clearly these are not the part specified...

i think so....

I am very interested to know, as HobbyKing responds
And how they solve the problem.
Title: Re: Lights did not work- the Rework is done - and the Lights work as specified
Post by: jhamm on July 17, 2017, 05:29:31 AM
Hello,
good News!
I get 10 new IRLM2502 for each one 0,21 €
I replace Q1 to Q8 and now the TCB is working well.
Later, i will upload a Video an post the Link here...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 17, 2017, 05:49:27 AM
The Video:
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 17, 2017, 01:03:31 PM
jhamm, thank you so much for your help. I am always impressed with the proficiency of German modelers.

You should not have to do all this work, but at least in your case you now have a functioning product. I hope you enjoy it.

I submitted this thread to HobbyKing last week so they can easily replicate these tests. I'm not sure what is taking them so long to confirm what we already know.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 17, 2017, 01:40:54 PM
I'm not sure what is taking them so long to confirm what we already know.

I think, they ask the Manufacturer of this boards...and this needs time!
They need to be very careful and considerate otherwise the Chinese man will lose his face:
If you say, you did something wrong...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Thor91172 on July 17, 2017, 06:20:38 PM
Kudos to the both of you.  I have not yet been able to play with the two I had purchased other than flash the firmware.  Your troubleshooting skills are spot on.  Thanks again for all of you efforts.

JT
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: johnnyvd on July 18, 2017, 01:32:20 PM
Luke,

Did not check but is it possible to make a work instruction on how to recognize the wrong mosfet and maybe how to replace it with the right IRLM2502?
Could be that there are some of us who are proficient in soldering and could use this instructions to repair their boards themselves?

Bad luck with this minor hiccup.. But i think the board could still have a bright future!

Cheers, John
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 18, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
Jhamm posted some information about this in the RCTankWarfare thread (https://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=215941#p215941) (thank you), but I will copy it here.

Use the attached image to identify the 8 MOSFETs. The correct versions are Infineon IRLML2502. These should be widely available, here is the link to DigiKey in the US (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IRLML2502TRPBF/IRLML2502PBFCT-ND/812502) where you can buy 10 for $4. DigiKey has no minimum order, choose USPS First Class Mail for cheap shipping. They are very fast and you should get them within a few days.

Jürgen perhaps you can tell use where you obtained yours in Europe.

These are small components but not difficult to hand solder. It will probably be a bigger pain to remove the old ones. De-soldering braid and a good flux would help, but you could get them off with nothing but a hot tip if you are handy with an iron. For someone experienced this is an easy job.

Edit: Component D13 looks exactly like a MOSFET and is right next to Q7. Be sure to remove the correct one.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 18, 2017, 03:49:59 PM
Hi,
Conrad (https://www.conrad.de/) and
Reichelt (https://www.reichelt.de/)
offer the Mosfet in their Onlineshop.

Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Rileyelf on July 18, 2017, 06:13:55 PM
Mine has just arrived and also has the 23EG parts.

RS Components here in the UK list two different parts.. Could you advise which is correct and I'll order some up.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/discrete-semiconductors/mosfet-transistors/?searchTerm=IRLML2502 (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/discrete-semiconductors/mosfet-transistors/?searchTerm=IRLML2502)

Thanks,
Drew.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 18, 2017, 06:19:38 PM
They look to be the same except one requires a minimum order of 60.

So instead get the one with a minimum quantity of 5: IRLML2502PBF (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mosfet-transistors/6106693/)
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Rileyelf on July 18, 2017, 06:35:45 PM
There does appear to be a difference in the Max drain-source resistance...

The top one IRLML2502PBF says it has 45mOhm, the other IRLML2502GTRPBF says 80mOhm.  Don't know if that's just a typo from RS though...

Thanks.
Drew
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 18, 2017, 06:40:30 PM
It probably is a typo, but it shouldn't matter either way. Any variant of the IRLML2502 will work fine.

Good luck with the swap!
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on July 19, 2017, 02:51:33 PM
Luckily i could rework my four TCB.
They will now fit in my Tanks together with a Bendini.
If the weather here is better,
i will make a video of the Bergepanther and Panther G in the Backyard.


Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on July 19, 2017, 06:37:12 PM
That's great. I'm looking forward to finally hearing about user's experiences! I will also be curious to know how your brushless motors worked, I have not seen many people use those before (in tanks).
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Lotuswins on August 05, 2017, 12:02:24 PM
Anyone have tips on replacing the Mosfets?  I was thinking of cutting each leg, then removing the foot left with the iron? I don't want to upset the pads. 

Jerry Rude

PS Luke, thanks for the tip on the converter, I ordered one up yesterday.  j
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on August 05, 2017, 12:23:35 PM
Cutting the legs (or one or two of them) is a good approach - but be very careful when you do, because if your cutters put any strain other than on the leg itself you still run the risk of lifting a pad. In other words, be sure to position your cutters so they don't act as a lever between the leg and the board.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on August 05, 2017, 12:37:17 PM
Hi,
cutting the legs is no good idea!
Not at all Mosfet is enough space to do this...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Eightyeight on October 20, 2017, 03:44:11 AM
New boy on the block here, hope I am posting correctly. Ordered Open Panzer board from HK, arrived promptly (in the UK). Closer inspection shows some poor unfortunate individual has hand-reworked the components in question.......with the wrong size of soldering iron. Not yet powered up for initial tests but hopefully all will be well.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: jhamm on October 20, 2017, 07:28:07 AM
Hi Eightyeight,
all Bords from HK are reworked.
There are no new Boards...
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: LukeZ on October 20, 2017, 11:35:41 AM
You are correct, and I remarked on this recently here (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tanks-369/11635636-intro-open-panzer-project-new-tank-control-board-11.html#post12376347). I agree with you, the person who did the repairs was indeed unfortunate (having done this myself I know how tedious it is), and the quality of the solder-work is typical of Chinese standards.

But beggars can't be choosers. For now we're stuck with Hobby King, for better and worse.
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Eightyeight on October 24, 2017, 09:29:19 AM
I am so impressed by the tenacity and dedication of yourselves to get things pushed fore-ward for a good result, against all the odds. You cannot spend a "thank you" anywhere, but thank you for a sterling piece of kit which will thrive given the time it needs. :)
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: Eightyeight on November 06, 2017, 08:08:14 AM
H.K. are now selling the reworked boards for £26.00 from the EU warehouse. :o
Title: Re: Lights did not work
Post by: johnnyvd on November 06, 2017, 02:29:41 PM
H.K. are now selling the reworked boards for £26.00 from the EU warehouse. :o

You are kidding me....  :o Just ordered two more of them from EU warehouse.. Just to check.. Tried to crowbar for partial refund on the two that will arrive from China but no dice.. "Sorry sir, price did not drop within seven days after payment"