Open Panzer
Open Panzer Help & Info => Open Panzer Help => Topic started by: aljones34 on April 09, 2019, 12:30:22 AM
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Defective board or is it just me? So far I’ve tried the following.
Purchased the board back in November from Hobby King. Then read all the Wiki pages on setting up.
Set up the radio Flysky FS-i6X in accordance with instructions and watched the orange leds flash when data transferred to TCB.
TCB connected to Sabertooth 2x25 via serial cable daub set on misc page of op config. Blue led flashes when throttle moved but no movement of motors of red or green leds.
Reset radio to factory settings just in case and then went through set up again still no movement.
Used the snoop function which showed all commands being actioned but no movement of motors.
Decided to try factory reset of TCB as per instructions but no flashing of leds as per instructions.
Sabertooth working correctly when connected directly to receiver. FS-IA6B.
Anyone got any other ideas I can try.
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Blue led flashes when throttle moved but no movement of motors of red or green leds.
If the blue LED you're referring to is the one on the Sabertooth, I don't think it gives much useful information. There is a also a blue LED on the TCB that simply indicates if data is being sent out the MOTOR serial port, but not all data sent to the Sabertooth necessarily leads to movement. What interests me about your statements is that you are not seeing anything on the Red and Green LEDs on the TCB. Those do provide information about vehicle movement as described in the Wiki (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:tcb:tcbinstall:boardlayout#onboard_leds). If they are not doing anything, then the TCB is not trying to move.
Have you assigned a trigger to the Engine On function? Note that nothing will happen until you explicitly command the TCB to "start the engine." You can assign this to a switch or you can have the engine automatically start when you move the throttle (this setting is on the Driving tab).
Make sure you also have the dipswitches on the Sabertooth set correctly (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:tcb:tcbinstall:motors:serialmotor#sabertooth_-_serial_controllers).
I'm sure whatever the issue is it's something very simple and we will figure it out shortly.
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Not sure how or why but I started over again and it’s now working. I seemed to be doing everything the same as before, except for engine start on throttle. The tank moves back and forth but the green and red leds are still not illuminating but I can live with that.
I can play about with it now and try things out.
NHXEGY
Thanks for the advice
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I seemed to be doing everything the same as before, except for engine start on throttle.
Well that is not quite everything the same as before, that would be a change which both points to the original issue and solved it.
As for the absence of moving indicators on the red and green LEDs - that is certainly not normal behavior. Do the red and green LEDs ever light up at all under any circumstance? I am wondering if the factory installed them backwards. That is not something anyone else has reported so it seems unlikely, but I can't think of any other reason they would fail to light.
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I had it running for a bit on the floor and didn’t notice the red and green lights flashing at all. Certainly doesn’t seem to effect its running and when the tank is closed up they won’t be visible.
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Hi all, I hoped to be in the same situation (I missed the activation of the motor function) but after I activate it, still no output on MA and MB, 0V . The blue led (serial send) increase the blink with the throttle, the red and greed led to recognize the direction and turn, the sound is good from the Benedini mini board but the output is 0. I have the battery new charged, is not from it. The battery is 7,2 V NiMH, the green led on Sabretooth is S1 OK. The Sabretooth serial dipswitch is set up for address 128 (1 and 2 OFF, rest ON) with the baud rate modified according to the procedure to 38400 bauds/sec (from original fabric 9600).
Separated, I tried the functionality of the Motor A and Motor B, when I connected the original Taigen turret drive motor to them, both does nothing, the motor is not rotating. I measured today the tension on terminals and I have the tension there, almost 8 V as should be. Can be malfunction related to the Taigen servo for turret rotation?
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Hi Costique, I am getting ready to go to bed but I will return tomorrow with more input.
In the meantime, would you be able to post your OPZ file? First connect to your TCB with OP Config, read all the settings from the TCB (use the green arrow button in OP Config), then in OP Config go to the File menu at the top, select "Save Settings to File" and save the file somewhere on your computer. Next you can upload this file to the forum by using the "Attachments and other options" when you write a post.
I will say with regard to the Motor A and B outputs, they can only drive actual motors and not servos. Most Taigen tanks use actual motors for the turret and if that is what you have should work. But if you happen to have a Taigen tank that uses a servo (I am not aware of one, but they are releasing new things all the time), it will not work with the Motor A or B outputs. We can of course use one of the servo outputs on the TCB, but let us first solve your other problems before we get too far.
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Hi LukeZ, thanks for your efforts. Attached are the TCB settings, which are the first set, just to make me clear with functions and settings (the working tank shall use the 3 positions switches with the toggle on/off functions, for example). MY mistake in explanations, is not a servo, is a speed reducer with a motor that one from Taigen. I have measured again the output on A and B with a voltmeter, are exact as supposed, 0V on middle and increase to maximum positive or negative, depends on the stick position. The only explanation is just poor connections on screws, I will re-do it next week, until Monday no work on Tank, I need to put back all parts to be at least a static model (some visitors in the weekend).
I checked again the Sabretooth 2x12 with the voltmeter, the same thing (0V), just one particular thing, after I moved to maximum the MA suddenly shown 0.87V which remains the same, no matter the stick position. The red/green LEDs work fine, even not every time when I start the TCB. Do you have a clue how I can test the serial controller?
the Benedini Mini was set up for working with TCB by the originator but instead of machine gun 2 I have some orders in german or the cannon fire sound is dumped ( the sound of the shell on the floor is very clear) and is doubled, is going too times.
Thanks again and I hope to have good news next time.
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My mistake in explanations, is not a servo, is a speed reducer with a motor that one from Taigen. I have measured again the output on A and B with a voltmeter, are exact as supposed, 0V on middle and increase to maximum positive or negative, depends on the stick position. The only explanation is just poor connections on screws, I will re-do it next week
I think you are right. The voltmeter tells us that the TCB is working correctly, so either a poor connection, or possibly the Taigen motor is broken for some reason, but they are relatively inexpensive to replace if so.
I checked again the Sabretooth 2x12 with the voltmeter, the same thing (0V), just one particular thing, after I moved to maximum the MA suddenly shown 0.87V which remains the same, no matter the stick position. The red/green LEDs work fine, even not every time when I start the TCB. Do you have a clue how I can test the serial controller?
It sounds like you have setup everything correctly. The problem you describe sounds like the Sabertooth is not recognizing the serial signals. But you have already set the dipswitches correctly, and run the Baud Rate Tool in OP Config. I see no problems with your OPZ file. Normally I would recommend you do a test with the TCB connected to Snoop, just to make sure it is responding to your radio correctly. However your description of the red, green and blue LEDs tells me that you already have all that working correctly.
Do you know that Dimension Engineering actually sells two versions of the Sabertooth 2x12? One version (here (https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/sabertooth2x12)) can accept serial commands. But the other version (here (https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/sabertooth2x12rc)) can only accept RC inputs. By chance do you maybe have the RC-only version?
Otherwise it never hurts to try the things you have already done once more. Double-check the dipswitch settings. Run the Baud Rate Tool once again. To be sure, maybe try a test while connected to Snoop. Make sure you do not have the transmission disengaged.
Finally, maybe you can take a picture of the Sabertooth and TCB wiring. It sounds like you know what you are doing so I don't expect to find any mistakes, but I am also not sure what else to check.
the Benedini Mini was set up for working with TCB by the originator but instead of machine gun 2 I have some orders in german or the cannon fire sound is dumped ( the sound of the shell on the floor is very clear) and is doubled, is going too times.
This is not surprising, the first 8 sounds on the Benedini Mini are pre-defined, but sounds 9-15 are "User Sounds" which can have multiple different functions depending on what the user decides to do. Thomas has assigned some sounds there but they are not exactly what you want. You will need to add your own MG2 sound in Benedini's TBS Flash software and replace the German sound. There are instructions on this page (http://openpanzer.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:tcb:tcbinstall:sound_benedini_v3).
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Thanks LukeZ, your analysis is exact. I do not have the RC variant of Sabretooth 2x12, I have the normal one, as is in the attached link. But maybe it is an idea to look on its firmware, I need to go a little deep in it as once and only once I had the red led with green led S2 lighting which is an overheating error, even never moved the motors or heated (cold as Iceland). I chose the bigger one because the tank has almost 6 kg and weight is possible to increase.
The sound arrangement will come in line, I have all prepared but I want to have the drive train working first.
I will present a photo of connections next week, now I put all back to have a static model, at least.
About transmission, how I could disengage it? I do not have a function for on/off of it from what I know and did not intend it now as I am just on begin of the function discovery.
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About transmission, how I could disengage it? I do not have a function for on/off of it from what I know and did not intend it now as I am just on begin of the function discovery.
Actually in your OPZ file I do see functions to turn on/off the transmission, see the screenshot below. The transmission will automatically engage when you turn on the engine so these functions are not necessary. The only reason I provide them is if you want to "rev the engine" (sounds only) without moving the tank, in that case you can disengage the transmission and then apply throttle - the tank will remain stationary, but the Benedini will receive the throttle sounds.
If you don't care to do that you can just remove those functions. At the very least check the position of your Aux Channel 7 switch to make sure the transmission is engaged when you try to drive (you can also verify the transmission is engaged with Snoop).
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Hi LukeZ,
In fact, it is exactly what I want but because I have no movement I did not notice the difference. I really want the transmission command as I would like to throttle the engine without move, as usual, all drivers do. Just think about the warm-up procedure, before the battle. I think I have something here to check with the sound card, the sound is not different from transmission off with transmission on, from what I noticed. For me seems to have the clutch activation in both of them, just at the beginning of the throttle.
And, if we are here - at this subject, I noticed that the engine rev sound is going linear with the throttle. But the Panther had a 7 gears transmission and I want to have a sloping sensor that makes the revving sound depending on the terrain slope and maybe in the future to look at inertial behavior as the engine will react differently to different throttle input depending on actual speed and slope. It will be nice to reproduce the dead of the engine when a man fails the clutch - transmission - engine throttle synchronization.
I have tested the transmission on and off with the engine on the idle, no success. But I will test it again next week, just to be sure. I need to clarify myself also about what manual transmission function is doing...
As is seems today, it is just the beginning of a long journey.
I found the Dimension Engineering "Basic Troubleshooting for Motor Drivers", first is to check the output in analog mode. There are a lot of variants of what can be wrong and most of them have as conclusion sustained damages on the controller and need for replacements. This, if so, will push me on new territory as I did not replace a circuit on board for over 25 years...We learn entire life... I hope to found the replacements and be able to update the firmware.
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In fact, it is exactly what I want but because I have no movement I did not notice the difference ... I have tested the transmission on and off with the engine on the idle, no success. But I will test it again next week, just to be sure.
Ok good, you understand the transmission functions. It is probably not the cause of your problem but I just wanted to be sure you were aware of it.
I need to clarify myself also about what manual transmission function is doing...
Most people do not need the manual transmission function, only if you can not center your throttle stick. Using the manual transmission increases complexity as you have to use another channel to select forward/reverse/neutral and I do not recommend it if you don't need it.
And, if we are here - at this subject, I noticed that the engine rev sound is going linear with the throttle. But the Panther had a 7 gears transmission and I want to have a sloping sensor that makes the revving sound depending on the terrain slope and maybe in the future to look at inertial behavior as the engine will react differently to different throttle input depending on actual speed and slope. It will be nice to reproduce the dead of the engine when a man fails the clutch - transmission - engine throttle synchronization.
These are interesting ideas but the TCB does not possess any of those options. Of course if you want to modify the firmware you can add any features you want, but some things are too complicated and would be used by too few people to make it worth the effort to add them to the official firmware.
I found the Dimension Engineering "Basic Troubleshooting for Motor Drivers", first is to check the output in analog mode.
Yes, if you have a potentiometer this is the easiest way to verify that your Sabertooth works, at least the motor drive outputs. If they do work, then we know the issue is somewhere with the serial commands.
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Hi LukeZ,
Good and bad news. The analog mode delivers 6V per motor (see pictures attached) and when I connected the motors, I had them moving, following the test settings (4 OFF, rest ON). DE manual is saying "If there is motor output, verify the proper signal is being sent to the driver for the input mode you're using."
The normal set of switches are 1, 2 OFF, rest ON.
The blue LED is flickering with the throttle. The connection is ok, I verified cables with Ohmmeter. The snoope is OK. I attach the settings file again, today saved. Any idea?
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It seems there is some issue with the Sabertooth receiving serial commands. I see nothing wrong with your wiring or your OPZ file.
There are two things you can try:
1) Try running the Sabertooth Baud Rate Tool in OP Config once again. Remember to connect your Sabertooth to the TCB and apply power to both. After setting the baud rate, the Sabertooth has to be restarted for the change to take effect.
I know you did this already but it is worth trying it again. If it still does not work, try lowering the motor serial baud rate to 9600 and running the Baud Rate Tool again, see if that helps.
2) You can also try controlling the Sabertooth with RC inputs. On the Motors tab of OP Config set the Drive Motors to RC Output. Now you will need to connect your Sabertooth to RC outputs 1 and 2 on the TCB. Only connect the 0V, S1 and S2 signals to the Sabertooth, do NOT connect the 5V signal from the TCB to the Sabertooth! (This would be the middle wire of your servo cable).
The Sabertooth will also need different dipswitch settings for RC mode, they should be 1, 4, 6 OFF and 2, 3, 5 ON.
See if either of those work and maybe that will give us more information.
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Hi LukeZ,
I did it, the results are:
1. with baud rate to 9600 the left motor is working with strange behavior, is working even the transmission is not engaged. After one command of transmission engage-disengage, come to normal. At 19200 and 38400 is not working at all.
2. RC outputs are working but the same behavior, the motors are under power even the transmission is not engaged. After a transmission cycle, the power is coming just with the transmission engaged. It seems a little difference between the motors speed, how we assure the straight-line drive?
I did not like this too much as 2 RC outputs are gone but for the moment seems the best arrangement to continue the works on it.
Is it possible a problem with the firmware in Sabretooth, not to recognize-reset the superior baud and to decode wrong the serial pack?
Thanks a lot for your support, I had results, finally.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"- W. Churchill
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1. with baud rate to 9600 the left motor is working with strange behavior, is working even the transmission is not engaged. After one command of transmission engage-disengage, come to normal. At 19200 and 38400 is not working at all.
2. RC outputs are working but the same behavior, the motors are under power even the transmission is not engaged. After a transmission cycle, the power is coming just with the transmission engaged.
Probably what you describe with the transmission is normal. The transmission will always be engaged automatically when you turn the engine on, it doesn't matter what your transmission switch position is in. After the engine is started, now you can disengage the transmission.
For this reason you might prefer to use the "Transmission - Toggle On/Off" function instead of the individual on and off functions you are using now. Assign the "Transmission - Toggle On/Off" function to Position 1 of your Aux Channel 7, and assign nothing to Position 2. Every time you move the switch to position 1 the transmission status will be toggled.
If you have a 3-position switch on your transmitter what I like to do is put "Engine - Toggle On/Off" in Position 1, "Transmission - Toggle On/Off" in Position 3, and nothing in Position 2 (the middle position). But everybody has their own preference!
It seems a little difference between the motors speed, how we assure the straight-line drive?
Presently the TCB does not offer any special steering adjustments, but you can use the steering trim on your transmitter (but make sure when you do Radio Setup the trim are centered first, and only adjust them later. You have already done radio setup so you're fine). However using steering trim can only work a little bit, if you adjust it too much the tank will start to "neutral turn" when you are stopped. If the tank is really turning a lot while you are trying to go straight it is worthwhile looking at mechanical issues, and possibly you might want to adjust the track tension on one side.
I did not like this too much as 2 RC outputs are gone but for the moment seems the best arrangement to continue the works on it.
Is it possible a problem with the firmware in Sabretooth, not to recognize-reset the superior baud and to decode wrong the serial pack?
There is nothing wrong with using 9600 Baud if the Sabertooth responds to it, I don't think you will notice any difference compared to 38400. So if that works you can do that and leave those 2 RC outputs free.
I don't know why your Sabertooth is not responding to the other baud rates, many people are using the Sabertooth with the TCB without problem. One other thing you could try is to connect to your Sabertooth using Dimension Engineering DESscribe software (download here (https://www.dimensionengineering.com/info/describe), manual here (https://www.dimensionengineering.com/software/DEScribe/html/)). However it requires you to buy a USB-TTL converter before you can make the connection. The DEScribe software will let you change the baud rate and maybe for some reason it will work better than the OP Config tool.
But if it is working at 9600 baud I think the easiest thing is just to leave it there and enjoy!
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Hi LukeZ,
Thanks again for your sustained effort supporting me.
I am done with the Sabertooth controller, I just think that the RC variant is cheaper. My intention was to have the machinegun controlled with 2 servos on RC outputs and some ideas about some other stuff but for the moment I am OK and I will control the rest of them directly from the radio as servos. It is a long way until there, I work intermittently on the tank when time and my personal mood permit (I need to be in the right spirit to make it).
My plans include an electromagnetic gun (natural recoil) shooting plastic balls with flash and smoke, a working machinegun shooting 1mm diameter metal balls (airsoft) and a moving and a gesticulating commander. I will be very happy to succeed but this will take time ...
I will modify the functions as you suggest, I like it much more than the actual setup.
The 9600 is not working, I have just one motor moving, not both of them. I understand that the signal for both is mixed in the package but somehow the second motor is getting no commands, as at the 9600 bauds just one motor commands are read in Sabertooth. And the automatic update of the signal speed is not recognized. Maybe I will try the DE software with serial adapter, just to see if work.
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The 9600 is not working, I have just one motor moving, not both of them. I understand that the signal for both is mixed in the package but somehow the second motor is getting no commands, as at the 9600 bauds just one motor commands are read in Sabertooth. And the automatic update of the signal speed is not recognized. Maybe I will try the DE software with serial adapter, just to see if work.
It is very uncommon but I wonder if you might have a defective Sabertooth. Perhaps you will have success with the DE software. The Sabertooths are very good controllers and no one has yet reported a case where they didn't work, until you, but I suppose there is always a first time for everything.
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Yes, I read some reviews before to go with Sabertooth and I still cannot exclude that the wrong signal sent with improper functions arrangement (not wrong wiring) which could damage the firmware. Once I had those red+S2 LED lightening and I cannot explain why and what error reported. I bought a USB-TTL serial, tomorrow I planned to check with DEScribe (I think this serial shall be useful in the future as my dreams about the commander gestures can be done under an Arduino board command. I have to move my living place and a lot of others things in line to be done but I still dream on it. And Arduino is complete new for me). I keep you informed.
PS: I made it today, is working!!!
The DEScribe tool was able to change the baud rate properly to 38400 bauds, and I am able now to drive the tank using the serial package. The end of beginning! Thanks LukeZ, I really was lost without your support.
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Great news! I don't know why the OP Config utility didn't work when the DEscribe did. I have never tested a 2x12 personally but I know others who have used them, and the commands are the same for all Sabertooth models. If I someday find a bug in my program I will fix it but for now I don't know what it could be.
The main thing is yours is now working.
Good luck with your move and keep us posted on your model!